MTFCA Forum

I am examining everything the previous owner did while restoring a 1927 Tudor
When looking at the rear emergency brake, I found several rivets that were bent and dragging on the drum. But i was more taken by the direction of the rivets. Instinctively I would have wanted to put the rivets in the other direction, with the head on the metal band side and the split rivet through the band material like is done on the transmission band. This way would seem to leave a lot of head to drag on the drum as time goes by. Obviously he didn’t sink the head at all, but even then, the other direction would seem right to me.

Which way is correct for the rivet? Thanks

The previous owner did it correct. You need to use tubular rivets and the heads are on the outside. The brake material is countersunk to hold the heads and then you use a rivet tool to spread the rivet on the inside of the brake.

It looks to me like the replacement linings were installed over the original linings. that way your rivets will not have very much "crush" when seated7 and they will not stay in place. Also your lining to drum contact will be spotty and not very good. George

Check all rivets with a magnet. Brass plated steel rivets are often sold as "brass" rivets. You do NOT want to use steel rivets (brass plated or not), as they will eventually rust (might take a few years if the car stays in the garage, very quickly if it gets driven in rain or fog). The rust (a significant abrasive!) embeds into the lining, and cuts the brake drum.

The instructions that came with the kit (anvil, punch and drill) for the tube rivets on the brake shoe have the head on the metal side, and the tube is on the lining side. Rivets are installed after the lining is drilled and counter sunk. https://www.modeltford.com/item/2566RVTL.aspx

This what i expected. I was surprised to see the heads on the lining side. I would thing they would be much tighter the other way. Would it be possible to take a photo of the instructions?
Thanks

This Tech Article, MTFCI webpage, should provide you with some help too.


https://nebula.wsimg.com/3d9ac6cebc542c ... 31FDB20580 (This is PDF file)

For a quick photo look, mark the hole locations, then drill pilot hole thru lining, then countersink hole 1/2 way into lining from top side. Rivet with head sunk in top side, and crimp the special hollow rivets on the brake band side.

David, Your parking brake linings are not to be installed like the transmission band linings, the brass rivets are to be installed with the head of the rivet counter sunk into the linings. I would like to see a couple more pictures that show your installation. Where did you obtain your linings & what part number was provided? George

George.
At this point i am re-doing all the work that was done before I got the car. The previous owner was a very good friend but had no mechanical skills at all. He now has advance dementia and so I am completing the car on his behalf. Both my dad and I helped him a lot over the years, but he often then assembled things incorrectly. What I have is a car that has been painted and is essentially complete and he began re-assembly. But so far I found that he didn’t leave the outer rim of the drum unpainted (for the rocky mtn brakes), did not put the axle felt seal and cap on, put the washer on the wrong side of the roller bearing and installed the new linings incorrectly. (He loved Mac’s and basically bought everything in their catalog—I am not a Mac’s man-i use Chaffin, lange’s, and Snyder in that order). There also appears to be no seal on the inner Side of the outer roller bearing. I also found that one of the rear leaf springs is missing.

I was basically working my way to the differential to check the backlash and gap on the ring/piñon when i found all these things i had to re-do.

Also the the mag gap i have found easily. Ranges from .010-.065, and that is only on the side i can readily check. The engine had new Babbitt installed by a respected shop in Iowa, but he had the engine assembled by someone that had never done an Model T engine before. So far I haven’t been able to even turn it over.

I personally wish he hadn’t had the body painted black but i will leave it that color.

So I am essentially, I am taking all that he has assembled apart and starting over.

I believe you are headed down the correct course of action - then you will know what you have !

FYI - for those not familiar with "The Improved Car" - take notice of the definite "swoop" in the front axle !

If Dan Treace shows you how to do something, you know it is correct. Heads on the lining side.

DHort wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:46 pm

If Dan Treace shows you how to do something, you know it is correct. Heads on the lining side.

Agree 100%!!! Heads on the lining side! The small bit of the curled over tubular end is not enough to properly grab the lining material. You need the wide head, countersunk as shown above, to grab enough of the lining to be strong. Don't assume everthing the previous owner did was wrong.

Hey Steve T. - I happen to know that one of your "pet peeves" is removable ear transmission bands that are installed "backwards", so I'm surprised that you didn't suggest checking for that too! .....harold

Pre-drilled linings used in any other application come with a hole which is flat on the bottom. This allows the head of the rivet to sit well below the surface of the lining. The countersinking tool provided in the Lang's kit looks to be an ordinary wood screw countersink, which will not allow the rivet head to seat far down in the hole. I would be sharpening a drill bit at a much lower angle to correct this.

Allan from down under.

The 1926-27 hand brake lining kit I bought years ago, from Synders I think, came with the correct flat bottom counter sink, worked great. Current example of repo parts shows the problem with some of today's stuff !