1911 open valve engine build

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MarkB
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1911 open valve engine build

Post by MarkB » Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:54 pm

when i started looking for parts for the open valve block i just bought, i dont find any of the original type parts for the valves, and valve guides.
the original valves have the octagone types spring retainers and the 9/16 adjusting nuts on the bottom of the valve, the guides are most likely original and are very worn. they push out of th block so they are easily replaceable if i can get new ones. i think everything is most likely original including the cast iron pistons.

does everyone install modern type valves and springs in the early engines?

i thought it would be better to keep the original type valve hardware as they are exposed.

i can probably have the new spring retainers and adusting nuts made but i dont know about the treaded end valves


Kerry
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by Kerry » Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:52 am

Can't say that I've come across what you have described, but then again I've only re-built 2 open valve blocks, used modern valves, vendors springs, caps, pins and adjustable push rods. replace the push rod guides with bronze ones, some times you can come across NOS cast ones on Ebay.


Kevin Pharis
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by Kevin Pharis » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:23 am

Where there’s a will... there’s a way!

Modern valves are definitely tough material... but are not impossible to machine. Manley (and other brands too) valves can be ordered as “blanks”, with extra long stems. With a little patience, do what you need to do... and cut em off to the length you need em
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4E1E2BB8-FE1E-4814-BAA6-15D10824A880.jpeg
CA8D3025-DDFC-4E6B-B4FD-E11880C512B0.jpeg

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Walter Higgins
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:35 am

Would you mind posting some photos? I also don't understand the retainers and adjusting nuts you have described.

I'm going through an open valve rebuild right now and wound up using the 3052M valve from Lang's. It uses the modern retainer, which isn't terribly obvious and is a solid design. The real advantage in this case was someone had hogged out the intake seats to a 30-degree face for some reason and the oversized head allowed for salvaging the seat without having to resort to cutting the block for replaceable seats (risky). Also, the stem is 0.030-over and allowed for saving the original guides.


Topic author
MarkB
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:55 am
First Name: Mark
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by MarkB » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:28 pm

these are pictures of the valve parts out of my 1911 engine
i removed the valve guides as the valves were really loose in the guides, the guides appear to be brass but could be bronze
the tappet guides are also removable but these are either iron or steel as a magnet will stick to them.
the valve guides and tappet guides would be easy to recreate.
the nuts at the bottom of the valves are worn on the bottom side but i would assume these to be hardened steel as the ride on the tappets.
the spring seats are also fairy easy to duplicate but i suppose these could be reused. the valves could clean they may be able to be reground and reinstalled but i would prefer to use new ones if i can find threaded replacements.
i know they can all be replaced with newer parts but i would like to rebuild it original except for the crank and pistons
Attachments
1911 valves 3 .jpg
1911 valves 1 .jpg


Kerry
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by Kerry » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:39 pm

Looks to be some ones creation, don't believe it to be an original Ford set up. You wouldn't want to re-use those valves anyway, they are 2 piece ones that are prone to break.

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Walter Higgins
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:42 pm

A machine shop probably could have installed what's called a guide liner that would have been concentric with the seat. I probably would have left them in and gone that route if your wish is to get back down to standard. I'm not familiar with that threaded valve and hex retainer that you show.


2nighthawks
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by 2nighthawks » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:57 pm

I'm wondering if those very "unique" and unusual valve train components might be found in one or more of the several Model T era "after-market" accessory and parts catalogs? Like Western Auto Stores accessory catalogs for example. Never seen anything like what's shown in the photos,....especially the octagonal valve spring retainers. It does make sense that, back in the day, someone would come out with a method of adjusting valve lash easier than grinding valve stems, or, the very labor intensive procedure to replace the original solid tappets with adjustable tappets. Great photos by the way,....thanks,.....harold


Topic author
MarkB
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:55 am
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Barlow
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 touring, 1911 under construction
Location: Murrieta California

Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by MarkB » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:20 am

i never thought about the fact that they might be after market parts, thats an interesting thought. these are adjustable so maybe thats the answer

any more input is greaty appreciated


2nighthawks
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Re: 1911 open valve engine build

Post by 2nighthawks » Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:33 am

.......ooops! Just noticed that the valve spring retainer is "hexagonal",....NOT octagonal! Oh well,....not all that important I guess. The main thing is,....they are normally perfectly round!

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