MTFCA Forum

I know that Model T Fords are the pride and joy of hundreds of thousands of owners today. They are driven regularly, cared for, and shown off every day by many people. But it would seem like the poor car is getting left behind. And I'm not talking about them becoming obsolete by 1927. Just last week, I noticed that many speed limit sign have increased in my city. This has made traffic speeds increase quite noticeably, some cars driving 30 mph faster than the previous speeds!
Doing some research, I found that through the years, the average speeds for roads has increased significantly. If this trend continues, the 35 mph Model T's will pose as a hazard on the road, not that I'm saying it is now. As cars become safer to travel at higher speeds, some even becoming driverless, will people start to really think Model T's as not a beautiful old car but as a nuisance on the road? And if so, will they no longer become street legal?
I am not worried, just curious.

I truly believe that this will happen in the future. I have no doubts about it at all. The only place I can break (or even meet) the posted speed limit is in the development I live in. 25 MPH. It is also the only place I will take anyone for a ride as the roads are usually totally devoid of traffic and therefore limits the possibility of an accident. That aside the T has all the safety of a hand grenade with a loose pin. Roads outside the development are minimum 45/50 MPH. You're in the way already.

Of course none of us can say with certainty what the future will bring. I do think that in the future there will be fewer and fewer roads on which it's safe to drive a T. Some roads already have "minimum" speed limits as well as maximum speed limits, and those minimum speeds are beyond the reach of a stock T. I also believe that driverless cars will make it safer to drive our T's. IMHO a computer driven car will consistently do a better job of accommodating our slower speeds than many idiot human drivers seem capable of doing.

Anyhow, my $0.02 worth.

Model Ts haven't been able to keep up with highway traffic for the better part of a century...this is nothing new.

And for all the hype about driverless cars, they aren't going to be taking over any time soon.

It will become harder to drive the old cars in traffic as time goes on, but it's a gradual thing, as it has always been.

I've yet to hear of any laws anywhere in the US making any specific type of car illegal, just because it's old.

In my part of the world, I think it will be banning of petrol powered cars first before anything to do with speed limits. Anyway, in suburbia where the speed limit is 50 or 60km/h, the Model T has no problems keeping up with the rest of the traffic. In fact, the only proposals to change speed limits here are to lower them. I regularly drive in freeway traffic where the speed limit is 110km/h, and never had any problems. Cruising along at 75km/h, it's surprising how many cars behind me don't bother overtaking when they could easily do so.

I think we are looking in the wrong direction when it comes to the future of the model T. Liberal ideas like the Green New Deal will force them out of existance long before there inability to keep up with trafic will.

As vehicles adapt more and more technology like "lane assist" and "adaptive cruise control" etc. Model T's will actually become safer regardless of the posted speed limit. Picture this - A Model T traveling down a two land highway with a convoy of autonomous vehicles following behind - all with "adaptive cruise control" and drivers sleeping behind the wheel.
The vehicle behind the Model T will be using "adaptive cruise control," to increase or lower its speed depending on the traffic, and also the speed of the car directly in front of it. The car does this by using a forward-facing radar system. Those with AI, "Artificial Intelligence, will be able to pass each other when its safe to do so. This without AI will cruse at Model T speeds until the driver wakes up

As long as slow moving tractors. mowing machines and other slow moving implements can share the roads I think the model T will be allowed as well. The key is visibility. most slow moving vehicles Have lots of flashing lights are painted red.green. yellow.orange with a bright slow moving triangle on the back. as opposed to a stock model T most likely Black or a dark color with one tail light that is not that bright at night. Brakes that only stop a little faster than the flintstones pedal car. no stop lights or turn signals and there lies the danger. For the T and its driver to survive and Ts to be remain on the roadways until they out law petrol. they need safety upgrades like many T owners have done and are doing or they will eventually become trailer queens. banned from the Highways one state at a time. and OCF will be the only place You can drive them.

My 2 cents worth maybe less.

I don't think it will be safety, politics or 'greens' that end Model T motoring, it will be the market.

As soon as a fuel cell that doesn't weigh 1500lb and does give a 500 mile range appears, the EVs will take over as quickly as the Model T replaced the horse 100 years ago, and the gas stations will disappear within a decade.

I’m lucky enough to live in Central Texas where there are farm to market and blacktop roads. We have enough open and non overdeveloped space where you can still drive without much traffic.
Of course there are 60-70 mph speed limit signs on some roads but it’s not like driving in residential areas. The interstate has service roads where you could drive fairly safe but in no way would I attempt to to get on the freeways.
Where you happen to live would make a difference in driving a old or classic car and if I wanted a car that could be driven on the highways I would get something from the 40’s and up. That’s the reason the 50 -70’s cars are so popular. And the prices for a good one reflect that. And remember the 80’s cars are considered antique for lots of people!

They allow bicycles everywhere and they are a nuisance on highways.

I know many of you see "organisations" as derived from communism but that is exactly why we have FIVA - the international organisations of ancient vehicle clubs. They are not that strong in the US, but in Europe they have a lobbyist running at the ailes of Bruzelles making sure that the EU does not get to good ideas to prevent yesterdays vehicles on tomorrows roads!
In each european country we have similar organisations dealing with the national governments ensuring the same.
I don't believe it to happen as long as you can get gasoline.

Whether you have roads suitable for Model T driving depends on where you live.


I don't anticipate Kansas roads like this disappearing during my lifetime. The same applies in much of the USA. The availability and/or cost of fuel may be another story.

I am curious how many in the MTFCA live and drive within the “city limits” of an actual city? Here in Rochester New York there is no place within the city that is posted faster than 30mph. Outside the city the roads quickly go to 40-50 mph, but we are surrounded by farmland in New York State. So, the farm machinery goes pretty slow out there. People from out West don’t realize NY also has more rural and woodland parks than many of the Western parks combined. As long as there are farm and construction machinery allowed to run on gas I think we will be allowed to drive our old cars.

I am curious how many in the MTFCA live and drive within the “city limits” of an actual city?

I live and drive within the city limits of Parkerfield (population about 400), but that doesn't really count. I regularly drive in Arkansas City (about 12,000). I have driven in Springfield (MO and IL), Fort Wayne, Detroit (both of them), South Bend, Chicago, Kansas City (both of them), and other cities big and small. The only place I've felt endangered was in KCMO when a wrong turn got me onto an interstate. Fortunately I was able to escape at the next exit unscathed. In the cities where I have driven I have always been able to find streets where the traffic doesn't move fast. In fact, if I go through Chicago again I'll avoid Harlem Avenue because it was mile after mile of stop and crawl. Of course I was born and raised in southern California, so traffic doesn't scare me. When I hear people complain about the terrible traffic in Wichita I just smile.
On Summit Street, the main drag in AC. The speed limit here is 30 MPH.

I drive through Milwaukee all the time. No big deal.

I only had a problem last year leaving Detroit when the street changed into a freeway with speed limit of 70mph. Took I think 10 miles before there was an exit on the left side of the freeway and I had to cross over.

The sky is falling

I think that if we all practice driving safely, and staying to the right (or left in some countries) and pull over to let faster drivers pass us, we will be OK. As long as they let bicycles drive on the roads, they should allow Model T's. I would also recommend that we do not drive at night unless we are in well lit areas, because our cars are not very visible after dark and people don't expect to see a slow moving vehicle, especially at night.
What is coming for our grandchildren and great grandchildren, I do not know but neither does anyone else.
Maybe some of the "Green" people will change their minds after this year when there is much less fossil fuel being used, and the temperatures are greater than normal. I personally think it is vain to think that we cause or can change the climate. There have always been cycles of hot and cold climate, and sea level rise and fall through out history. There were rumors of a "northwest passage" several hundred years ago. That passage, would have been a period when there was less ice in the Arctic and ships could pass around North America.

Anyway, I am getting too old to worry about such things. As long as I can continue to drive my Model T's, I will.
Norm

My experience with LA freeway traffic is that it is too slow for a Model T. When it takes 4 hours to go 20 miles, how fast it that?

I drive my 26 touring to our small towns of Waukomis and Bison, but I am scared to drive in Enid. Some of the people in Enid drive like you have brakes and they don't, in fact it scares me to drive in town with my 2015 F150 and I'm glad to get back home.

This thread makes me glad to live where I live. My Model T friends and I can hit the local, rural backroads, drive all day, and not get passed by only 2 or 3 modern cars all day long. Sometimes none. It sure is nice. We just avoid the busy roads the fools drive on.

I'll say it again- It sure is nice! John just sent me an email because he wants to ride Wednesday during the "cold front".

I live in a very busy and growing suburb north of Houston (Conroe) and drive my T all over, including downtown. I prefer roads with a max speed limit of 30 to 45 with an ample shoulder or a big passing lane...or multiple lanes.

I plan to retire in no more than 7 years and will be moving to a more rural part of the state.

I don’t see any illegality on the horizon anytime soon. The electric car will be the thing that does all my old iron in. But first the electric car has to become better than the gas car in every way. I think that’ll happen in a decade or so. And then there will be gasoline available for a long time. My guess is that gas won’t disappear for 40 or 50 years.

I think all electric cars will go to a universal battery that can be quickly changed from underneath the car by a robot. You pull into the station, the robot removes the car’s battery and installs a new one....in less than ten minutes.

When that happens, I’m flexible...maybe I’ll convert my 54 Ford tudor to electric.

If you live in rural areas (or close to them), there will always be areas to drive your T. Population in those areas is decreasing and has been for several decades. The recent "Escape the infected Cities" trend won't greatly impact that trend. So rural roads will always be around to hit the road upon. I suspect there will always be gasoline and fossil fuels available...someplace. The Third World is heavily dependent upon fossil fuels for powering all kinds of machinery. They don't have a reliable (or extensive enough) electrical grid to make that switch. And they don't have the resources to fund those projects now, or in the foreseeable future. So I expect gasoline to be available for decades to come. Just might not be available readily right around the corner like we are used to.

We have to use common sense and courtesy. T's shouldn't drive on limited access highways, neither should horses or pedestrians, where in spite of speed limits, traffic moves at 65 plus mph. On other roads where the traffic runs at 40 plus mph, we need to pull over and let other cars pass. Not to do so is rude and gives us all a bad reputation. Also nobody wants a badly tuned or maintained T that smokes and driving at high speeds in traffic with 100 year old braking technology, is not responsible. Compared to the number of all the vehicles on the roads, T's are a tiny fraction. Ever driven behind a caravan of motorcycles? Not so much fresh air. Common sense and courtesy are key, and drive defensibly.

As an auto hobbyist, I am PRAYING for the day that driverless cars make up the majority on the roads.
A computer does NOT care what you are driving. You are a number algorithm, just like every other vehicle on the roads. They will take instant account of your presence, will always make the right decision, and will stay out of your way. Unlike human drivers, they will never ride your bumper (Assuming you have the deluxe bumper option on your Model T.) They won't cut you off, because all their passing computing is preplanned
With all robotic cars, driving ours will become a pleasure again. Even on normal high speed roads, because even on the freeway, the robotic cars will have analyzed your speed, and already adjusted for it before they ever get to you.
Unmanned semi-trucks are already on the road in Tucson. They are making daily trips between Tucson and Phoenix, both ways. The next step will be Tucson to El Paso. There is a factory here that converts them to unmanned operation. So far they haven't had a single accident.
Within 20 years, there will be no manned cars on the roads, except for our antiques. Or the used cars, like Corvettes and Camaros, and other used cars that aren't historically valuable and are just used to haul parts for the really valuable vehicles, the Model T Fords.
And there will be no complaints that could take our cars off the roads, because computers don't care.
I KNOW there have been accidents with robotic cars. But the difference them and human drivers, is that when robotic cars have an accident, and it gets analyzed, EVERY CAR IN THE ROBOTIC FLEET LEARNS THE SAME LESSON, FLEETWIDE, BY THE MILLIONS OF VEHICLES, and nearly instantly. (Like, the next morning, on the data download)
Traffic accidents are going to become a thing of the past, and motorcycle cops will have nothing to do, and will disappear. Robots don't speed. A motorcycle cop will pull you over, not to give you a ticket in your Model T, but to have someone to talk to. Please be considerate and give him a donut. He is only lonely.

Food for thought as more and more supposed driverless cars that do not have acidents are on the road the more insurance for driven cars will be. The people that make & promote driverless cars are counting on that being the trigger that gives them the market. And drives out the driven car. They predict that to be in less than 10 years. The director of marketing of Damler Benz predicts that will happen by 2025.

None of this matter, there are whole clubs of folks driving High Wheeler's, you know true Horseless Carriages and they usually can't even break 25 mph. If some folks think your a moving road hazard....they can go around.

Maryland passed a law about 10 years ago that states, "any licensed vehicle is illegal to be driven on any road with a posted speed limit, if the vehicle cannot be driven at 5 mph above the posted speed limit."

I researched the reason and intent of the law and was told it was passed primarily for mopeds and golf carts.

I have talked with several police officers that didn't appear to even know the law existed and had never written a slow speed ticket.

There were a couple deaths about that time from slow speed vehicles being hit and driven off the road or into road barriers.

I drive my T in here NYC, and if there’s anything I can thank our scumbag mayor for, it’s lowering the city speed limit to 25mph. I don’t need to go any faster, Ts love driving at that speed anyways!

Maryland Model.T owner to his wife, " Honey I had to spend all that money on the Rajo, the law requires it for my car .'

LOL One of the best responses I have seen.

1194668jc wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:27 pm

I know that Model T Fords are the pride and joy of hundreds of thousands of owners today. They are driven regularly, cared for, and shown off every day by many people. But it would seem like the poor car is getting left behind. And I'm not talking about them becoming obsolete by 1927. Just last week, I noticed that many speed limit sign have increased in my city. This has made traffic speeds increase quite noticeably, some cars driving 30 mph faster than the previous speeds!
Doing some research, I found that through the years, the average speeds for roads has increased significantly. If this trend continues, the 35 mph Model T's will pose as a hazard on the road, not that I'm saying it is now. As cars become safer to travel at higher speeds, some even becoming driverless, will people start to really think Model T's as not a beautiful old car but as a nuisance on the road? And if so, will they no longer become street legal?
I am not worried, just curious.

About the same time time they make farmers illegal. Depends where you live I guess. Not really a concern for the rocks and cows folks up in Minnesota!

1194668jc wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:27 pm

I know that Model T Fords are the pride and joy of hundreds of thousands of owners today. They are driven regularly, cared for, and shown off every day by many people. But it would seem like the poor car is getting left behind. And I'm not talking about them becoming obsolete by 1927. Just last week, I noticed that many speed limit sign have increased in my city. This has made traffic speeds increase quite noticeably, some cars driving 30 mph faster than the previous speeds!
Doing some research, I found that through the years, the average speeds for roads has increased significantly. If this trend continues, the 35 mph Model T's will pose as a hazard on the road, not that I'm saying it is now. As cars become safer to travel at higher speeds, some even becoming driverless, will people start to really think Model T's as not a beautiful old car but as a nuisance on the road? And if so, will they no longer become street legal?
I am not worried, just curious.

About the same time time they make farmers illegal. Depends where you live I guess. Not really a concern for the rocks and cows folks up in Minnesota!