MTFCA Forum

Here you go Steve. Check the gallery now. Just posted my 17 touring.

Looks good Jim. I love that car. I bet your ready for spring up there!

Here's mine. Only three known.

I posted mine, an early 1917 Model year, built in Sept. 1916. Funny thing, when I went to the OCF at Greenfield Village this year (without my T) I didn't see a single 1917 of any make.

The black radiator 1917 is a very rare beast in Australia, released in late 1917 as the new 1918 model replacing the brass 16 after the issues of limited transport and the embargo had been sorted.

16-18 are rare
Most are 15s now
Black Ts are just as much fun if nor more

Huh? You can tell I'm new to the hobby. Bob, are you saying it is not an uncommon practice to hang brass radiator, etc., on a '17 to make it look like a brass era car? I know that '17 marks the start of the "Black" era but never assumed such cars were any less common than any other year.

How about other owners of 1917 cars chime in - it would be interesting to see how many are owned by guys on the forum.

Oldavi8tor
Yes more 15 cars today then Ford ever made
Im perdonaly giulty of atleast 1 fake predated car
I sold it but guy who know it was not a genuine 15 but he sold it and didnt
Title said 15 so i think you get the picture
Now restoration costs about same but when done you have pretty brass and car worth alot more i owned an orginal 17 T and now 18 with late dec 17 engine

Turning a 1916 into a 1915 is not complicated, and is said to have been done a lot. Converting a 1917 or 1918 takes a lot more than just changing the radiator and a few other easy parts. I expect that conversion is pretty rarely done.

There's a common saying that there are more 1915 Model T's today than Ford actually made. Are there more than 308162 1915 Fords today? Obviously the old saying is an exaggeration, but the point it makes is true. A lot of 1915 Fords have been put together from parts or converted from 1916. I'm pretty sure my runabout is in that first group. As Dude Lester said, "That don't hurt the runnin' of it none."

...never assumed such cars were any less common than any other year.

They're less common than cars of the mid-twenties, peak years of production. There are fewer of them because not as many were made.

What is the physical difference between a 15 and 16? other than numbers.

In reviewing my question, it may not have been comprehensive in nature. Some early 15s carried over some 14 parts such as gas headlights and some early 15s had left and right side lamps. As time progressed onward the side lamps were non handed and the head lights were electric. This style continued with brass rimed electric head lights, brass rimed and top non handed side lights, brass hubcaps and aluminum hood. Early 1916 production was the same as 1915 except for the steel hood, from what I could understand in Clymers' book. In the middle of the production years there seems to be no visible difference.

The way I tell, is I look over the coil box lid. If there is a half moon there, it's a conversion. The next is the spark and throttle levers. If they are not flattened on the end like a '14 or '15, then it's not a real '15. Also, a real one may or may not have the small horn wire tube running under the steering column, and a '15 has equal length windshield hinges, and the bottom windshield frame is riveted to the windshield bracket. The rear axle housings have no ribs on the backing plates. A real '15 will have a taper leaf front spring. Taper leaf rear springs were used until 1918. Then of course there is the engine number, and the patent plate on the firewall. I believe by 1916 Ford stopped stamping the serial number on the patent plate. Also, '15s and '16s have their own special door handle, slightly different than a '14. 1916's no longer have the common sense fasteners on the top boot. '15s also have their own one year only oil cap. I could go on, but, you can see their are a lot of differences. Oh I almost forgot. 1917 is the last year for oval top sockets.
All of this can be verified in the latest edition of the judging guide lines.

Thank you very much Mr. Smith I appreciate your in put.

Another part that helps with dating is the frame.