This is very unusual crank (got it from Stan Howe). Decided I should make some progress. The cam of course is unique (320 lift and 215 degrees duration). I just realized that the rods I planned to use won’t fit so I am ordering some specials from Crower. Cylinders for bored and valves are done.
Next “tricky part” is the oil lines (pressure oiled of course)
Once I have the rods, then off to the balance guy!!
2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Les Schubert
Topic author - Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
2 up 2 down line boring done!!
- Attachments
-
-
-
StanHowe
- Posts: 979
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:42 pm
- First Name: Stan
- Last Name: Howe
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
- Location: Helena, MT
- MTFCA Number: 19133
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
That's just so COOL!!!!!
-
Chad_Marcheese
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:06 am
- First Name: Chad
- Last Name: Marcheese
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Cut Off Touring / Pickup, 1923 Doodlebug / 1924 Speedster Gow Job
- Location: Upstate, NY
- MTFCA Number: 26904
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Oh, I know how long projects like this take, I just hope it doesn't take to long to actually hear it.
Nice work Les, I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
Nice work Les, I wouldn't expect anything less from you.
-
Tim Williams
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:46 pm
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Williams
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Model T Speedster, 1922 Model t Speedster project
- Location: Hillsboro, OR
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
What is that Crankshaft from???!!!!
My guess is was made by the Nev-R- Break company
Tim
My guess is was made by the Nev-R- Break company
Tim
-
Les Schubert
Topic author - Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Tim
My guess is it is made from a BIG chunk of round bar on a big engine lathe!! I used to have compressor crankshafts made that way (and a couple of antique car cranks too). No CNC required!
My guess is it is made from a BIG chunk of round bar on a big engine lathe!! I used to have compressor crankshafts made that way (and a couple of antique car cranks too). No CNC required!
-
Henry K. Lee
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
- First Name: Henry
- Last Name: Lee
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
- Location: South Pittsburg, TN
- MTFCA Number: 479
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
The old 1,3,2,4 firing order! Unique sound.
-
big2bird
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:57 pm
- First Name: Jeffrey
- Last Name: Hausey
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Early 23 Touring
- Location: Anaheim, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 51193
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
I sold a Winfield alum flat head years ago. One of a few recast. I forget who did them. I regret that decision.
-
Kevin Pharis
- Posts: 1360
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Very cool Les! That crank and cam should solve most of the inherent Siamese port issues, but was said to shake a fella clear out of the car! If you ask me... it’s worth it!!! I’m curious to hear if it was the primitive balance techniques of the day... or the crank stiffness... or the firing order that caused the vibration issues?
Hope to see more of this build!
Hope to see more of this build!
-
big2bird
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:57 pm
- First Name: Jeffrey
- Last Name: Hausey
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Early 23 Touring
- Location: Anaheim, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 51193
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
What does it weigh? (the crank)
-
Les Schubert
Topic author - Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Jeffery
Well it weighs a LOT!!
I’ll try to weigh it sometime (probably part of the balancing). Fortunately the balance guy I’m going to use is pretty smart!!
I wonder about the comments about the sound. Personally I don’t expect anything unusual!
Well it weighs a LOT!!
I’ll try to weigh it sometime (probably part of the balancing). Fortunately the balance guy I’m going to use is pretty smart!!
I wonder about the comments about the sound. Personally I don’t expect anything unusual!
-
big2bird
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:57 pm
- First Name: Jeffrey
- Last Name: Hausey
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Early 23 Touring
- Location: Anaheim, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 51193
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
I was in charge of power at the LA Auto show for a few years. I was walking some VIPs around when I stumbled onto the restored car at the show. I stared at that thing for 15 minutes taking pictures, and ignored my guests. LOL Quite the deal. I had no idea that thing made it back together.
You have quite the legend going on there, and a lot more work ahead.
You have quite the legend going on there, and a lot more work ahead.
-
ModelTWoods
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:53 am
- First Name: Terry
- Last Name: Woods
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Model T coupe, 1926 4 door sedan
- Location: Cibolo (San Antonio), TX
- MTFCI Number: 20180
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Les, are you going to drill the main caps to bring oil to the crank? I have a rare set of main caps that were cast or forged for a stock T crank that have a flat boss (where the numbers are cast on your caps) and the flat bosses are drilled and tapped for 1/8" fittings for oil lines.
-
ModelTWoods
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:53 am
- First Name: Terry
- Last Name: Woods
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Model T coupe, 1926 4 door sedan
- Location: Cibolo (San Antonio), TX
- MTFCI Number: 20180
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Les, are you going to drill the main caps to bring oil to the crank? I have a rare set of main caps that were cast or forged for a stock T crank that have a flat boss (where the numbers are cast on your caps) and the flat bosses are drilled and tapped for 1/8" fittings for oil lines.
-
Les Schubert
Topic author - Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Terry
I have always connected them to the block side of the bearing using the Ford supplied oil holes. I tap them and plug them prior to babbiting. After line boring and then grooving the babbit to line up with the crank drilled holes, I install tube fittings and run the oil lines roughly where the original T oil line was.
I have always connected them to the block side of the bearing using the Ford supplied oil holes. I tap them and plug them prior to babbiting. After line boring and then grooving the babbit to line up with the crank drilled holes, I install tube fittings and run the oil lines roughly where the original T oil line was.
-
TonyB
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:15 am
- First Name: Tony
- Last Name: Bowker
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 touring
- Location: La Mesa, CA
- MTFCA Number: 32
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Les, what was the problem with the Ford rods?
Tony Bowker
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
-
Les Schubert
Topic author - Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
The crank is T stroke but will A diameter journal that is narrower. I was planning to use a set of Townsend aluminum rod castings in conjunction with Scat stroker rod bearings , but the shells are too wide!! So at 71 years and with lots of projects on the go I will just buy a set of custom rods!!
-
Kevin Pharis
- Posts: 1360
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Oh, let me count the reasons not to use Model A rods...
Different lengths
Different weights
Stretched/stripped threads
Chisel marked in a high stress zones
Mating surfaces not flat
Need to be shortened
I used A rods in my last A crank motor (before SKAT was producing), and I must have 100 hours in the set. Mill out the webs, cut em in half, make boxing plates, mill the perimeter to remove all the stress risers, balance all the pieces, weld em all up, babbit, and finish bore to size. This is when I find out that the parting lines are not always in the center of the rod bores... melt out the babbit, remachine the parting lines to a common length, remachine the rod bores to center about the parting line, rebabbit and machine to fit!
$550 a set sounds like a great deal to me!!!
-
Dave Sullivan
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:35 pm
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Sullivan
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923
- Location: Bellingham WA
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Les, did you do the ports similar to what Mr. Winfield did? I think we'd all like to see the rest of the story, if and when you have time. Thank you, Dave in Bellingham
-
Les Schubert
Topic author - Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Dave
I have not done anything to the ports yet. Still working on the “rotating group”. I anticipate opening up the intake ports to about 1”x2”. With modest valves but a fairly radical camshaft I doubt there will be much advantage in going bigger. I don’t remember ever seeing any pictures of the Winfield version.
One of the things I am working on is installing a flathead V8 oil pump on the back of the camshaft
I have not done anything to the ports yet. Still working on the “rotating group”. I anticipate opening up the intake ports to about 1”x2”. With modest valves but a fairly radical camshaft I doubt there will be much advantage in going bigger. I don’t remember ever seeing any pictures of the Winfield version.
One of the things I am working on is installing a flathead V8 oil pump on the back of the camshaft
-
Kevin Pharis
- Posts: 1360
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
-
SurfCityGene
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:00 pm
- First Name: Gene
- Last Name: Carrothers
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 Torpedo Roadster
- Location: Huntington Beach, Ca
- MTFCA Number: 22905
- MTFCI Number: 23068
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Very interesting story Kevin, Thanks for posting!!
1912 Torpedo Roadster
-
big2bird
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:57 pm
- First Name: Jeffrey
- Last Name: Hausey
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Early 23 Touring
- Location: Anaheim, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 51193
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Les, I have a few more. Took me hours to dig these up.
-
Dave Sullivan
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:35 pm
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Sullivan
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923
- Location: Bellingham WA
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Thank you, Big2Bird, I had not seen these pictures. Where is this car now? From what I've read, it must be pretty impressive, even today. I, for one, am waiting to see the results of Mr.Shubert's work. Thank you, Dave in Bellingham
-
big2bird
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:57 pm
- First Name: Jeffrey
- Last Name: Hausey
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Early 23 Touring
- Location: Anaheim, Ca.
- MTFCA Number: 51193
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
I don't have a clue.Dave Sullivan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:50 amThank you, Big2Bird, I had not seen these pictures. Where is this car now?
-
Les Schubert
Topic author - Posts: 1319
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm
- First Name: Les
- Last Name: Schubert
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster 13 touring
- Location: Calgary
Re: 2 up 2 down line boring done!!
Some very interesting pictures!!
I guess that I’m not motivated to the same extent, so I won’t be attempting to duplicate the camshaft pictured.
The crank pictured is quite helpful though and mine will ultimately bear a resemblance. We are attempting to solve as much of the potential vibration issues as possible.
I may just create a real “sleeper”!!
And I will throw this out there, if you want to own it you can!! Currently I have 6 T engine projects and 4 other antique engines. WAY too many for me!!
I guess that I’m not motivated to the same extent, so I won’t be attempting to duplicate the camshaft pictured.
The crank pictured is quite helpful though and mine will ultimately bear a resemblance. We are attempting to solve as much of the potential vibration issues as possible.
I may just create a real “sleeper”!!
And I will throw this out there, if you want to own it you can!! Currently I have 6 T engine projects and 4 other antique engines. WAY too many for me!!