Where did you get your rear axle shafts

[Tbird]

Awhile back there was a thread about new rear axle shafts not having the right keyway depth. Is this still a problem or did it get corrected? Have you purchased new shafts recently that were correct and where from?
Thanks
Mike

[CudaMan]

I got mine from Chaffin's. No issues with the keyways on the ones I got.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I believe the keyway depth issue was long ago corrected. I have heard of some keyway width problems however, where the key will not fit into the keyway. Also, some keyways too long on the tapered ends, to where they protrude into/under the axle seals.

[Chris Instness]

I also bought some from Chaffin's in December.

[Walter Higgins]

The keyseat issue was previously discussed here:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1502761591

[Steve Jelf]

I got mine from Chaffin's. No problems.

[Adam]

The best quality axle shafts now being manufactured I believe are being made by Snyders and are wholesaled to many other vendors. I won’t speak for which vendors sell these, but I will say these “good” axle shafts are marked (GN). This is the same marking you see on the better quality aluminum pistons and stainless steel valves.

These have been available for a few years and are greatly improved over what was previously available. I have hardness tested a couple of them and they are right at the Ford spec for hardness. They are straight, and the bearing areas are properly ground. There might be some areas where they aren’t exactly to the Ford print, but are minor issues compared to the very poor quality shafts available for decades prior.

There will be someone that will chime in here eventually and complain that the shafts are .062” too long. They are. BUT the majority of rear hubs on cars have a worn taper and if axle shafts were made a standard length, the hubs would bottom out on the shoes in 75% of cars. On cars with good hubs, the brake drums stick out 1/16” too far which most hobbyists won’t even notice.

[RajoRacer]

BUT, has anyone that purchased the currently available shafts attempted to install "over the counter" available 1/4" keys ???

[Steve Jelf]

I can't say current. I bought mine last August. They were OK. I have no gripe about the extra ¹⁄₁₆" length.

[Original Smith]

I use NOS Ford axle shafts in my cars. That way I don't have to worry about them being 1/16" too long!

[Adam]

Steve T, In answer to your question, the keyway depth is sufficient on the (GN) shafts.

Larry, It’s nice to know that one person out there has been able to find usable, unused, un-rusted, genuine Ford axle shafts. I’ve been to lots of very good auctions and swap meets in the last 20 years and I’ve never seen one. Do you have any at this time? I’d sure like to have one at a reasonable price. I could pick it up at Chickasha. If you don’t want to sell one, I’d sure like to at least see one. I think there would be a big “Wow Factor” amongst the Model T enthusiasts if there was a display of NOS Ford script axle shafts, sleeves, Hyatt Bearings, and other misc.

[RajoRacer]

Adam - check the "width" - depth is O.K. !

[Tbird]

So the depth issue has been resolved according to what you guys say, but there is a width problem? If so what are you doing to fix the issue?
Thanks

[CudaMan]

On the two shafts I most recently bought from Chaffin's, a new key fit perfectly in one of them and I only had to sand the other key lightly on some 200 grit paper on a flat surface to get it to fit perfectly. IMO those two shafts had no issues with keyway depth or width.

[Original Smith]

Adam: I bought the batch I have from a guy up by you 15 years ago. I think he was asking around $100 each for them. This guy found a garage that had been boarded up years ago, with two '26 roadsters in it, and a load of NOS parts. I bought all kinds of stuff from him.

[Adam]

Those would have been from Dave near Stoughton, WI... That was a horde of parts he bought about 20 years ago that I think came out of Ohio. The collection may have been around 50 years old when he got it. There was lots of good stuff that got sold pretty cheap.

[Colin Mavins]

I picked up nos axles on two swap meets locally here in Winnipeg , I am surprised there is not more NOS parts in the States to be had, when we rebuilt the rear end most of internal parts were found NOS locally. As of late I have been buying up all the NOS that is correct for the 12 , Dad always said he had enough parts for 50 years , now that number is more like a 100 years Government rules permitting. Cheers from Getting a little warmer Winnipeg

[D Stroud]

Some suppliers of new keystock make them a .001 or .002 oversized to make up for "worn" keyways. We always just dressed them down on the side of a bench grinder wheel. Dave

[RajoRacer]

I resorted to purchasing "undersize" key stock from McMaster-Carr to properly fit the currently available axles.

[Original Smith]

The way I buy T parts is, I buy NOS, or mint used parts when I see them, whether I need them or not, because you never know when you will.

[John M Maslack]

I bought from Chaffin's for my Ruckstell- rebuild....Dave was great and All is well...I did have to thin the keys a bit. I don't mind this as it is normal as near as I can tell, from other projects....
The 1/16 th longer axle was fine and worked well with the 26-27 hubs I had....

[George Mills]

I know the decision on how to proceed was already made based on previous thoughts...but had wanted to include this earlier as a 'primer' on the way things use to be done, long before CNC tooling. I came North last night and found the details to transmit. It's tagged here as future reference to this thread will allow it to tag along.

Supplying shafts with keyways that narrow is a ‘sin’. My only concern before taking drastic action is, ‘Did your ace mechanic feather the key-seat edge with a needle file before he did up a width measurement? ‘ Most of the time there is always a feather unless someone dresses an edge.

FWIW, I have always tried to express that you need to be careful trying to apply modern ‘standards’ to all things ‘T’. The T was designed in an era before standards existed, there were in-house workbooks that the engineers kept under lock and key, most companies (although the Ford archives have yet to disgorge such) ran by what were called ‘process cards’ which was simply a recipe sheet in common language where the end result would match the print without there ever needing an actual print. To apply modern standards…then there needs to be a system solution, i.e. in this case as an example, pick a Class of key, then use the current ‘standards’ in the application such as normal reversing load, and then size a key-seat, and a key-slot to that current standard interpretation. It all fits, it all works in unison, there are no head-aches if assembled correctly. (As a further example, something done this way is the newer Bendix kits…for them the supplied Woodruff key almost does not seem to want to fit. Polish both sides on 800 grit paper, check for feathered edges, and you can then pop it in and feel the ‘slide’…no need to beat on it and it will take a light drift 'hit' to pop it out again!)

When standards started coming along in the 20’s and were heavily revised during WW2 there were times that universal existing practice was just reduced to paper…and there were times when existing practice had to be scrapped for adjusting to an agreed standard. (And you may ask why Z-bronze never made it to the standards list?) Just for kicks, without looking at any modern published standards, I pulled from my archives someone other than Ford process sheets and drawings dated 1911. I also do not have a Ford actual axle drawing, or hub drawing to guide me. To me there is an even chance to better than even chance what I’m about to do will be equal to Ford.

¼’ key system…

- End mill or sled cut on a horizontal mill a cut width of ¼” plus ‘0’ minus 0.001 for the key seat in the shaft.
Select speeds and feeds to produce an ƒƒ finish.
Cut length to be such that with round end of any key must protrude fully beyond the width of the mounted hub
Depth of cut above opposite shaft point to be nominal shaft diameter minus 9/64” plus 0.005 minus ‘0’

- Select a key from the stockroom and verify that the key as received is ¼” plus 0.015” minus zero. Do not use random bar-stock to make your own keys. The key material in our stores is selected to have properties that will allow easy file to fit yet still maintain physical properties of strength required.

- Produce a key slot in the hub that has a final width of ¼” plus ‘0’ minus 0.001” for the key slot in the hub
Select speeds and feeds to produce an ʃʃ finish.
Depth of cut to be nominal bore diameter subtracting 9/64” and having a tolerance of plus or minus 0.005”
- To assemble, first use a fine file and break sharp edges as slight as possible
- There should be slight resistance when inserting key into key slot by hand. There should be a resulting sliding fit between the key and the key way slot in the hub.
- File key to fit as machined key way and key slot size for both conditions as final machined.
- On assembly, coat the key with a white lead suspended in mineral oil

As one can see, the intent from the Original Equipment manufacture of the era was to ‘fit’ all keys using files and material that under all conditions should never arrive with an air space. (Before anyone comments about look at the time involved… just watch those guys sanding spokes in the video…I’d bet the ‘key fitters’ get to the point that only a few seconds with a file gives a proper fit.)

If memory serves me and so this doesn't turn into a day long project, the ƒƒ I think was a 125 or better finish using today scales. Also, if I remember my history of engineering, the 'other' class of key came along under the auspices of 'field repairs only' where plug-n-play was crucial...yet somehow survives as a designers choice 'pick' available today for even new stuff....

Another thing I forgot to mention...there was a preamble to the whole thing by this company...all Keys were to be carbon-steel and not alloy steel at a grade above any Bessemer steel. Converting their spec found elsewhere lets me call that todays 1035. My only comment on this is that they maybe wanted something better than Bessemer. and at the same time have the easiest to file, and also that might yield to strain before the shaft?

Sorry to get windy...but Harold S and I have had this thing going for over a decade now...who can use the most words to explain something...

[George Mills]

Ahhhh. Typo alert!

I cut and pasted a line changing dim data...something else needed to change....

On hub key slot depth it is NOT subtract, it should be ADD to the axle shaft diameter...

D’oh...sorry

[RajoRacer]

Thank you George for that most informational post !

[Adam]

I just checked the keyways on 2 new (GN) axle shafts. I de-burred the keyways and checked them by sliding in gauge blocks. The keyways are .247”/.248” wide. The keyways ARE over .125” deep, therefore ARE a good depth.

Specifics: .249” wouldn’t fit. There were areas along the keyway were .248” would fit, but not everywhere. .247” fit all areas of the keyway.

[RajoRacer]

O.K. Adam - now check the available keys.