MTFCA Forum

Here is a 22? Touring I looked at in a real barn on a real farm in mid Illinois yesterday. The family wants it restored for a wedding. I explained costs and gave them classified ads showing that pretty nice ones can be bought for a third of what they will spend. It was very interesting to look at as it is complete and untouched. Art

Incredible!

Art


Wow, great photos of a T from a deep sleep. Petty tatty and ratty from the cotton upholstery stuffing now packed on the engine splash shields by the carb!

Good of you to explain to the owners, unless so much sentimental attachment, for a wedding might be best to rent another or a larger antique, entry to the rear seat of the T touring is tight for the bride in a pretty gown.

But real nice to see one so intact, from the original Ford script spark plugs to the top saddle mounts for the top irons!

Reminded me of the one I found in 1978, in a barn, was only missing a hood and front wheels, added a set for rolling it out to my trailer.

Buy or rent another car and leave that one alone.

That's like the 15 touring I found in a cow barn a few years ago. I brought it home, and now it sits untouched in a hay barn. Really can't decide what to do with it.

Absolutely Wonderful. It's easy for me to say it should be left as is and never touched but that may not be practical for most folks. Anything done to make it usable could detract from the charm it has.
At least we can enjoy these photos and any others that may come our way.
Thanks for posting this.
Rich

These are the ‘real’ barn finds that should be just cleaned up, made road worthy and drive as is. I’ll bet most of the wood is still stable enough to leave alone but if not fix just what’s needed. Believe it or not there are getting to be more people who would drive the car as is cleaned up and used in some wedding shots.

The family says it ran fine, was still used in parades and that it was not broken when it was parked. The engine is not frozen. It would be interesting to see it cleaned up and the tattered materials removed. Art

Wonderful seeing these in the wild. Love the pictures but now I want to see more.

Another unfortunate victim of poor storage.

The fact that it is currently sitting in a barn is neither here nor there.

Clean it up and get it running.

Don't worship dirt.

Art
I would get with the family and tell them that the T is a real survivor found in a barn and it would be great to clean it up and running and maybe put some new tires on it. They might be pleasantly surprised the fun they would have with it. If they want to spend a lot of money to restore it later they could do that but it would be neat to see the T in cleaned up as found condition.

Hope they reconsider the "restoration"....
Just clean it up, make it run smoothly and use as is....Great wedding "something old"....

"Something old" is the first line of a traditional rhyme that details what a bride should wear at her wedding for good luck: The old item provides protection for the baby to come. The new item offers optimism for the future. The item borrowed from another happily married couple provides good luck. Wikipedia

So she won't "wear"it...just ride in it...

There really is not very much black paint left on it and it needs some back corners patched. On a total refinish what paint or procedure would make it look like an old preserved, not too glossy, finish? Not quite Hot Rod flat but not quite new? Something along the lines of the 22 Touring offered by Ancient seeker in the "Model T collection" advertised in the classifieds. Art

I am pretty much restating what others have, but:

A local guy I know of is paying for a total restoration of a 23 touring that looked much like that when he started. He is closing in on $18,000 for the restoration and has a good friend who did the tear down, and reassembly made arrangements with the paint, wheel,upholstery, engine rebuilder etc. Kind of a general contractor who contacted all the sub contractors. The good friend has not charged him anything for this service as of yet.

There are plenty of good cars for sale out there, already restored and more economical.

Hello all! Since Art didn't know the full story of this T when he posted this I thought that I'd provide some background to provide insight into our decision to restore the car. My Dad was given this car by 2 of my Great Aunts in 1958 (the year I was born) who had inherited it from one of my Great-Great Uncles in 1956. My Mom doesn't know if the uncle was the original buyer but the T was the only car he ever owned. So, I would guess that the car has been in the family for 75+ years. My brother's grandchildren will be the 6th generation of our family to take a ride in this car. When Mom first mentioned in 2019 that she had a CD coming due and she would like to restore the T in time for the local parade in 2022 I explained that I had talked to someone a few years earlier who had spent several thousand dollars more than the CD was worth while doing a lot of the work themselves on their T, so the idea was put on the back burner. Then last year my daughter, who had teased my Dad since she was a young girl about fixing up the T for her future wedding, became engaged. So we started to seriously look into restoration, asking around about restorers and a chance conversation with my brother-in-law led us to Art. The timing was right for Art to take on the project and our family is extremely grateful he agreed to do it. We had some discussions about just doing enough to get it driveable, but Mom's desire is for it to look nice and run. And, after pulling it out of the shed and seeing that it was in poorer condition than we had thought, I think that is the right thing to do. Hopefully this will answer some of your questions and help you understand why we're doing the restoration.

I'm as cheap as anyone. It surprises me the people who trade in their cars every 3 years in order to have a "new" car in their garage, even though doing so costs many thou$$ands. They buy expensive clothes, like wedding dresses, to wear once. I have Teresa's grandpa's 23 touring, bought used in '26 to take his firstborn to school. Yes we could afford to replace it with a nicer one, but it would be just another car. It sounds like this car is worth restoring for the sentimental reasons alone. How many more generations in the family will be able to enjoy it?

Women are made to love, money is made to spend.

We've had a lot of auctions for people that were "Going to restore that tractor or that car" or whatever as soon as: 1. work slowed down, 2. they got caught up a little on money. 3. other reasons.

Most of them were estate auctions.

I have yet to talk to any old person that said, I wish I had spent less time with my family, more time working and not spent money on foolish things like prom dresses and vacations with the kids.

Make it and spend it. Life is short. Make money, spend it on memories.

Here are some pictures from yesterday. The engine looks good except for needing a valve and ring job. All the babbit is in great shape with good clearances. The transmission looks good with no cracks in the drums and plenty of band material left. The body was rebuilt by Ray Wells and was finished and painted by a local shop. I have the top and upholstery kit from Mike at Clastique waiting to be installed. The coils and carb have all been sent out and rebuilt by RV and Russ. Art

Stan hits it IMHO. Running low on money is a scary thing, but trust in the Lord to see you through. As for me, I would restore the car and have as much family fun with it as humanly possible! Cheers, and have at it, Art! Bill

A car in that condition ought to be cleaned up and "stabilized" at the very least. Stabilization would consist of removing dirt, leaves, and mouse/rat litter from the various places, hidden and otherwise, where it collects and promotes rust, as well as removing loose stuffing and decayed upholstery material that mice love to stuff inside doors and various nooks and crannies in the body and frame. I'd want to clean and lubricate all the mechanical systems and the springs. Flushing the cooling system would be a good idea, (be sure it drains completely) and pouring some oil mixed with diesel into the fuel tank would help preserve it. I'd also put some oil in the cylinders and crank the engine a few dozen rounds. Cars last much better if they are not parked on dirt and where mice can get at them.

Good for you, Art ! That restoration is gonna be really nice and attractive to that family for generations to come. You do good work and it appears you’ve contracted out specialty tasks to our “best and brightest”......Preservation ??.. nah...I think that would lead to an eventual loss of interest in this T by the family.

I would say 1921, or older.

its post 19. (dont see any special 19 features.) Has holly nh -1920+. 1920-1922. If it has not been changed since new.

I ruled out preservation once I saw the bottom couple inches of the body from the left cowl to the right rear quarter was rusted out along with the seat platform and left wooden sill. Believe me, I would love to have a preserved original and will someday find one for myself but this was too rough. Art

Stan Howe said "I have yet to talk to any old person that said, I wish I had spent less time with my family, more time working and not spent money on foolish things like prom dresses and vacations with the kid."

Guess you shouldn't talk to me. Sorry, been a bad day.

I have argued in favor of preservation over restoration for most of my fifty plus years in this hobby! Way, WAY, too many cars that should have been preserved were restored while cars that should have been restored were left outside to rot further away. For decades, the hobby mantra was "buy the best you can get and restore it!" Everybody (it seemed) thought one could save so much money by starting from a better car and restoring that (sometimes true, but often not if one factors in paying five times as much for the nicer car to begin with?). A little more for body repair, paint is paint, a full upholstery job doesn't care what the car looked like before restoration began.
There really are not enough well preserved pre-war cars left in the world. That said, there is a point where condition is beyond the reasonable preservation status. My opinion, For whatever it is worth, is that this car was in poor enough condition that real restoration was the better way to go, for the car. Without a doubt, financially, it would have been better to buy a car already done. However, given this particular car's place within this particular family? I love a story with a happy ending!

So Sheldon, what I think you are saying is; "I love it when a plan comes together!"
If you don't remember the TV show "the A Team" this comment makes no sense--in some ways that show didn't either!

DD, That works also! I never watched "The 'A' team". But I did somehow catch that phrase in connection to the show. Probably saw and heard it in the commercials?

And just so people don't get the wrong idea? I do like it when people 'preserve' cars that have passed that true preservation point. Model Ts like your 'Barney' and TH's 'Rusty' are wonderful in a whole other way! They present themselves as what they really are, nearly hundred year old workers still earning their keep. And, for anyone not endowed with more money than they know what to do with, such cars can be a very economical way to enjoy this hobby. Drive, enjoy, repair, repeat. One does not need a seven thousand dollar paint job to enjoy driving the old cars. What Rich E has done, actually resurrecting the coupe and the 1914 touring from pieces few people (other than me?) would ever consider actually restoring, is also incredible.

I have been working on this 22 for just less than a year and the owner is getting it Nov 2nd. His daughters wedding is November 7th. I am down to installing the hood and running boards. I am also restoring some 22 license plates for the car. I painted the entire plate black, the letter color, followed by two coats of white, the background color. Next I will lightly 600 sand the white off the raised letters and numbers exposing the black . Clear coat comes next. That makes for a real smooth finish with to edges on the letters/numbers. Art

Here is one in my garage now. Since the picture was taken I have put on a new top, but when the new top gets dirty, it will match the rest of it. This car was put in storage in 1991. The owner wanted me to fix it up but do no body work. The upholstery is not original, but not worn out either. The wood is a bit loose, but usaeable. I did install a rebuilt Ruckstell and Rocky Mountain brakes which the owner had in their basement. We had to replace the gas tank and fuel line, but I was able to clean the carburetor and change the oil and coolant. It runs very well and has good power. I did have to take up the connecting rod bearings. It is about ready to go home. The windshield has also been installed and the wheels changed to the proper size wheels.
Norm

BE-A-U-TI-FUL!!!

Fantastic job Art!

I would consider the term “what the bride wants the bride gets!” And second this is AMERICAN do what you want to do! The money spent will go to the model T hobby. And Iam sure some younger person will be watching the transformation.

JMO: I have never liked the idea of driving around in an antique vehicle that looks as if it is being driven to the junkyard. I know that there are folks here who like a "patina"; to me dirt is dirt, rust is rust, and shredded upholstery is just that. If you have the resources, at least fix it up to drive well and be presentable. If you have even more resources, restore it. The front seat in my T had a "patina", one of the first projects was to have it redone. No regrets.

You did a great job Art with the T! This T is a late 22 by the looks of it. It has the 3 piece back along with the 2 man top. The earlier T’s had a 5 piece back. I have a 21 like this one with the 5 piece back but other than that it’s the same body.

Norman’s refreshed T will look great too. An original T is what it is and it’s only that way once. When they are found is good original shape and close to being drivable a refresh is the way to do it. After all when T ‘s were new they only looked that way for more or less than a couple of years if that much.

Finished, Thank you to a lot of you guys for your help and advice. Art

It’s getting real hard lately to see a car that’s not a barn find. I often wonder who “lost” these cars and if maybe they want them back.

Art,

You have done a wonderful service for this bride and the future generations of the family. It would be nice to see some photos of the wedding with the T.

Thank you for sharing,

Dom

I had to add these pictures from November 20th of last year when we pulled the old girl out of the shed and delivered her to Art. What Art has accomplished in 11 months is nothing short of phenomenal! A lot of things had to fall into place for this to happen, first and foremost Art being available and willing to take on this project. Without Art's drive and enthusiasm this restoration couldn't have been completed in this short timeframe and certainly not to this level. Thank you Art!

Here is the reason Art worked so hard to get this T finished. I was very proud to drive my daughter to her wedding in the car she had teased her grandpa about fixing up for her special day.

Very nice. A job well done.