MTFCA Forum

What is the spindle bushings made of, copper burrulum brass or something else? Copper burrelium is a carsenigenic.

They are brass. Nothing to worry about other than wear and tear. Keep 'em well oiled, or they won't last long!

Actually, they originally were made of bronze, and all the spindle bushings being sold by the major vendors are bronze also. Bronze and brass are actually different materials. Brass wouldn’t last too long as a bushing material in this area.

They may have been bronze originally, but from my past experience they're all brass. Not to argue, just sayin!!

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2713.aspx

According to Wikipedia, finished items of beryllium copper present no known health hazard. Extensive contact with dust, shavings and fumes may result in lung ailments, and the Cancer Institute has classified the material as a carcinogen, but then again, if you read warning labels, nearly every substance known to man causes cancer . . . in California.

Seriously, exposure to most "dangerous" substances usually requires a ridiculous level of exposure to cause harm.

FWIW, metallurgists and foundrymen classify all copper alloys as "bronze", making the distinction that "brass" (red, yellow, naval, etc. ) is usually decorative, and bronze alloys are functional. Most alloys contain varying proportions of tin and zinc, and other amendments depending on the purpose of items made. Statuary bronze is usually copper and tin only.

Scientists are the leading cause of cancer in laboratory animals.

I have a wire with about 6 or 8 original bushings. Each of them has the Ford script.

My grandfather and two of my grandmother's brothers had a copper mine in Bingham Canyon Utah. This was back in the early 1900's when they tunneled in, before the large open pit mine was established. All three of them died by the time they reached their 40's from breathing the dust in the mine.
Norm

Brass, alloy of copper and zinc, of historical and enduring importance because of its hardness and workability. The earliest brass, called calamine brass, dates to Neolithic times; it was probably made by reduction of mixtures of zinc ores and copper ores. In ancient documents, such as the Bible, the term brass is often used to denote bronze, the alloy of copper with tin. ~ Britannica

Are any metals other than mercury and lead significantly dangerous?

Some Model T parts are brass and some are bronze, but some catalogues typically call the bronze ones brass. #2528 thrust washers are bronze. Chaffin's catalogue calls them bronze. Snyder's and Lang's call them brass.

Steve hit the nail on the head! Yes, the suppliers do call things brass when they are really bronze!

I’m sure if you call Steve or Don and ask if they are brass or bronze, they will tell you “bronze”...

Beryllium
Beryllium-copper

Two materials which I've overseen the machining, abrading and lapping of as well as personally handled daily for over 35 years prior to (healthy) retirement

I've pretty much slowed down or stopped posting, but this thread could easily go off the rails with excessive worry or honestly ignorant dismissiveness, so am posting this to fill out what the internet cannot provide you with regard to specifics...

Here is the truth:

* Not everyone can become sick; only individuals who become sensitized can become ill with chronic berylliosis - a lung disease
* Individuals contemplating or actually working in fabrication recieve a blood test to determine if sensitized and or lung spyrometry and chest x-ray on an annual basis to determine if affected
* Safeguards and ventilation are put in place during machining operations which you would not believe.
* Abrasive operations are performed in a negative-pressure system equipped with EPA approved and inspected ventilation and filtering systems
* Depending on the area or operation, machinists or technicians don/doff protective clothing over their street clothing before entering/leaving the work area. The level of clothing protection will vary between foundries and shops as each makes their choice for the amount and type of work being performed.
* All forms of beryllium, HIPPED or unHIPPED, alloyed or not (copper, etc) have the potential to harm sensitized individuals
* Secretaries at Beryllium machine shops and foundries who never in their life entered the manufacturing facility or ever touched the stuff are known to have become ill and due to this, testing is now generally performed on all individuals working in the building.
* Unscreened individuals, visitors, dignitaries or the President of the United States are barred from entry to these facilities. It just isn't done
*Visitors to the lobby or meeting rooms of these facilities are logged in, kept track of, and limited in their time and visit count for the year
*Handling of finished, pickled/passivated beryllium products poses no known health hazard.
*Breaking a finished part and exposing frangible edges or otherwise abrading, filing, sawing or in any way disturbing the finish can be hazardous unless confined to a dedicated space designed for one or more of the above mentioned operations
* Dust from material containing as little as 2% beryllium (beryllium-copper) has now been shown to cause illness in sensitized individuals


Beryllium-copper is a very good electrical conductor and provides great strength to the base copper contact. It is most commonly used in electrical switches where it is completely inert and safe. I am unaware of any designed use of this material in a bearing situation, but then the world is full of clever or stupid fellows who I have no knowledge of or control over.

Pure beryllium is not something the average guy/gal will ever encounter unless they are engaged in the machining or assembling guidance systems for some military aircraft guidance systems, strategic weapons or mirrors for space telescopes, etc., and if that is the case, they know full well that they are handling it.

Spindle bushings are not made of beryllium-copper, and if they were, they certainly would not cost just $4.75 each...think many multiples of that cost.

You'll see the California Proposition 65 warning on about everything as a default because just about anything, used inappropriately, can be harmful and its impossible to test everything. So to avoid lawsuits its being put on everything.
" Proposition 65 requires businesses to provide warnings to Californians about significant exposures to chemicals that cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm". Here are some carcinogens you are likely exposed to - Welding fumes, Wood dust, leather dust, processed meat, paint orders, diesel engine exhaust, acetaldehyde (occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit), ethanol (alcoholic beverages), even regular cooking in cast iron skillets. One T owners need not worry about is "New Car Smell" that's really plastics oxidizing.
Too much of a good thing is bad for you

Frank

Amen to your post! As a former business owner dealing with mfg. products to the consumer, the CA. law had high impact.

That is why you see printed warnings on labels of most things made of metal or other chemicals. The warning label, if not present on the item, is clear basis for a law suit, failure to warn , and you are guilty. Plus the law is far reaching, as anyone, in any state can file a lawsuit against you if your product as any ingredient on the Prop 65 list of chemicals or materials! We live in a society of blame and sue.


Who enforces Proposition 65?
The California Attorney General's Office enforces Proposition 65. Any district attorney or city attorney (for cities whose population exceeds 750,000) may also enforce Proposition 65. In addition, any individual acting in the public interest may enforce Proposition 65 by filing a lawsuit against a business alleged to be in violation of this law.

Lawsuits have been filed by the Attorney General’s Office, district attorneys, consumer advocacy groups, and private citizens and law firms.

What are the penalties for violating Proposition 65?
Penalties for violating Proposition 65 by failing to provide warnings can be as high as $2,500 per violation per day.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:22 am

I've pretty much slowed down or stopped posting...

Hey Scott, don't be a stranger.

A perfectly serious comment: One deadly carcinogen we all have exposure to daily is sunlight. It kills thousands every year (tens of thousands maybe).
Don't laugh and don't deny - make sure you wear a hat, cover up and use sun screen. Melanoma (the cancer sunlight causes) is NOT a pretty or a kind cancer.

I am sure we all manage things like this daily. Worrying about the latest issue from California will shorten your life as well. Stress and worry is a proven life shortener and a carcinogen too - several cancers are linked to stress and worry.

Be sensible, think about things, then get on with life.

Anybody remember what happened to the Marlboro man?

I heard he is still living with his wife of 33 years after ending his Magnum PI TV series?

He died...

big2bird I just about fell out when I read your post———THANK YOU so much.

Bringing this topic to the top again, my dad was a helicopter mechanic in the navy on an aircraft carrier. he said that all the bushings they used were burrilium copper.

While some bushings are made of beryllium, there are many other materials bushings are made of. Brass, bronze, aluminum, steel, stainless steel, etc.
The material depends on the application, RPM, size, expected life span, on and on. Today, spindle bushings are brass.

Good Luck,
Terry

Cabin-Corona fever is setting in here Jonah, so I'll be funny here and say, if you're concerned about any carcinogens with your T parts, just DON'T EAT them, and you should be fine!!

Haven't tasted any yet, I just make sure I soak all the items in hand sanitizer before I use them and wear a hazmat suit and a respirator before I work on it or drive it.

My hazmat suit

Love it! Ur as goofy as I am!!

Lots of falsehood in advertising. I had to laugh when my half Italian dad used to say “ look at the crying Italian” when the crying Indian littering commercial came on...when I asked him what he meant, he said, oh that’s Iron Eyes Cody, aka Espera Oscar de Corti”

Everything gives you cancer
There's no cure. There's no answer ...

Few acknowledge the cancer risk from carcinogenic music.