Engine Pans
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:31 pm
- First Name: Bill
- Last Name: Obier
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Fordor, 1926 TT, 1913 Speedster (WIP)
- Location: Rosedale, LA
- MTFCA Number: 28973
Engine Pans
I understand how the inboard (engine side) mounts to the crankcase bolts, but what about the outboard (frame) sides?
Do they rest on top of the lower frame flange or hang below?
The Model T Service manual is not clear on this point.
Do they rest on top of the lower frame flange or hang below?
The Model T Service manual is not clear on this point.
-
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:10 pm
- First Name: Brad
- Last Name: Kirtner
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring Car, 1927 Closed Cab TT, 1927 Coupe
- Location: Salem, Virginia
- MTFCA Number: 50618
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Engine Pans
Rests on top of the frame rails.
Brad
Brad
-
- Posts: 3327
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: Engine Pans
The engine pan flange goes up against the bottom of the lower frame rail. Secured with lockwashers and nuts on the hood shelf carriage bolts.
Photo from Ford Service, outer edge of pan shown after removal of hood shelf bolts, free end under frame rail.
Photo from Ford Service, outer edge of pan shown after removal of hood shelf bolts, free end under frame rail.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
- Posts: 896
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
- First Name: James
- Last Name: Bartsch
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 Coupe
- Location: Dryden, NY 13053
- MTFCA Number: 30615
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: Engine Pans
On my '26, the pans mount from the bottom as described by Dan Treace, jb
-
- Posts: 4967
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Gregush
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
- Location: Portland Or
- MTFCA Number: 52564
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Engine Pans
All the ones I have seen, Model T or A mount to the under side of the frame. For the T, the carriage bolts that mount the hood sills and wood blocks to the frame are used to mount them.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
-
- Posts: 6498
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
- Contact:
Re: Engine Pans
I don't find any text about the engine pans specifically, but Figure 18 shows the pan hanging under the frame rail after the nuts and lock washers have been removed. While the configuration of the pans changed over the years, believe they were always attached under the frame rails. I found nothing about them in the encyclopedia, but maybe somebody who's a better searcher can find a reference.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
-
- Posts: 5463
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: Brandi
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
- Location: Moline IL
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Engine Pans
Look at this link - has very good pictures of the mounting points towards the bottom of the discussion
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1447712968
example of one picture there
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1447712968
example of one picture there
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
-
- Posts: 3327
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: Engine Pans
Text from Ford Service: Chapter II. Assembling the Car, Paragraph 133 , line (c)
Insert the two engine pan bolts "B" through hood block, frame, and engine pan. Place lock washers over the ends of bolts and run down nuts.
The only way to fasten the engine pans is under the frame rail, the engine pan bolts run through the frame, note the order of instruction (c), hood block, then frame, then engine pan, that means the pan flange must be on the underside of the frame rail
Insert the two engine pan bolts "B" through hood block, frame, and engine pan. Place lock washers over the ends of bolts and run down nuts.
The only way to fasten the engine pans is under the frame rail, the engine pan bolts run through the frame, note the order of instruction (c), hood block, then frame, then engine pan, that means the pan flange must be on the underside of the frame rail
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
- Posts: 1128
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:51 pm
- First Name: Keith
- Last Name: Townsend
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: late 1911 touring, 1915 runabout, 1919 touring, brass speedster
- Location: Gresham, Orygun
- MTFCA Number: 14778
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- MTFCI Number: 16305
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Engine Pans
I know early engine pans used a square nut (1/4 x 28 with a 3/8" head) and a cotter pin. When was the cotter pin replaced with a lock washer?
Were the bolt and nut changed too?
Were the bolt and nut changed too?
-
- Posts: 5261
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Engine Pans
I have never found the frame rail bolts with a cotter pin on our Canadian sourced cars. The nuts are square, but are bigger than standard hardware shop nuts offered prior to today's glut of hex nuts. Also, the front bolts are shorter than the rear ones, to accommodate the taper in the frame rails, and the heads on the bolts are considerably smaller than standard coach bolts. For this reason I will often spend some time rescuing originals rather than just wrenching on them until they break.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
-
- Posts: 3327
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: Engine Pans
Keith
There are cotters in the end of the engine pan bolts on the early T's. Don't know the date they were eliminated, but likely in '12?
Here is an award winning early T, you can even see the reflection of that cotter in the gleam of the shiny Ford black finish
Click on photo to enlarge
And Allan, yes me too, I try to save all the original T nuts and bolts, here is original square nut on 1925 engine pan bolt, the lock washer is modern, the original broke, and the original are thin, and fit snug to the bolt shaft and are smaller in diameter than the modern.
There are cotters in the end of the engine pan bolts on the early T's. Don't know the date they were eliminated, but likely in '12?
Here is an award winning early T, you can even see the reflection of that cotter in the gleam of the shiny Ford black finish
Click on photo to enlarge
And Allan, yes me too, I try to save all the original T nuts and bolts, here is original square nut on 1925 engine pan bolt, the lock washer is modern, the original broke, and the original are thin, and fit snug to the bolt shaft and are smaller in diameter than the modern.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford