Conversion to electric cars

[jiminbartow]

I just saw a Ford commercial stating that one does not become a 117 year old auto manufacturing company without being open to change and pledging to manufacture electric cars. Regarding the feasibility of the nation changing over to electric cars, environmentalists and New Green Dealers always stress the necessity of this, so as to eliminate the use of fossil fuels (coal and oil), but they don’t seem to include all of the considerations in their argument.

1. Electric cars will still need to use petroleum based fuels as they recharge, using electricity generated by coal powered power plants, since we don’t yet have the wind or solar power technology to generate the vast quantities of power needed to supply the electricity to recharge millions of electric cars anticipated to be in use in the near future. Nuclear power, which is the only other tested non-fossil fuel power source that was once a promising power source of the future, but fell out of favor because of Three Mile Island and Chernobyl.

2. The range of an affordable electric car is about 300 miles. How much more coal will be required in fully charging the millions of electric cars on the roads every miles? This factor alone

3. It takes about 8 hours to fully charge an electric car. What are motorists supposed to do if a journey takes them over 150 miles from home?

I don’t think it is at all feasible to consider outlawing fossil fuels and mandating electric cars until all of these factors can be successfully dealt with. Any thoughts? Jim Patrick

[ewdysar]

Hi Jim.

First of all, nobody with any authority is considering outlawing the use of fossil fuels or internal combustion engines in the foreseeable future. There are some regulations that encourage the gradual adoption of renewable energy transportation, but the process has been slow. These regulations have inspired some pretty impressive results for those that want to adopt newer technologies.

Given those advances, I realize that there is a high likelihood that I will only buy one more new internal combustion car/truck in my lifetime. An electric car available today for the same price as the last new car that I bought will meet my driving needs for 350+ days per year without any compromise in performance, safety, capacity, cost, comfort, or convenience. I would gain the advantage of being able to re-fuel the car on my own property using solar panels that will cost considerably less per mile than fuel for the very efficient car that I drive today. I will still own a number of alternatives for the times that I need more than my daily driver can deliver, just like the the rest of my life to date.

One has the choice of wringing one’s hands at things that may someday come true, or one can live in the present, coping with what life is today and deal with changes when they actually occur. I will buy an electric car when it provides a better value to me than the available ICE alternatives, and I feel that day coming soon.

Eric.

Disclaimer: I built a number of lead-acid based electric conversions in the ‘90s and some of your considerations were more true then than now. I also converted my 30’ sailboat’s auxiliary drive to 100% electric ten years ago. For me, the electric drive has proven better than the diesel driveline that was replaced in virtually every aspect. I have the same expectations from an OEM electric car, whenever that happens.

[jiminbartow]

Thank you, Eric With your experience, do you think adding solar panels or small low profile wind mills on top of electric cars would extend the range on sunny days? The wind mills would recharge the batteries by wind generated by the forward movement of the car. Jim Patrick

[tdump]

Big Oil has been the "bad guy" for decades.
Big Lithium will be the "bad guy" in the future.
Lead acid batterys right at the moment bring 20 cent a pound for recycle.
Lithum batterys for recycle,YOU pay .80 cent a pound for someone to take them.
Solar panels, once used up,are hazardous waste.
The galvanized post that hold the panels on a 100+ acre solar farm just thru the woods from me, are contaminating the ground and it will be no good for farming and could be contaminating the ground water.
I buy used AGM batterys from a fellow that maintains UPS systems,uninteruptable power supplys.
He said some folks are going lithium. 3 times the cost of the lead acid batterys thinking they are doing good.
But in the end, not recyclable,and has to be put away in a old salt mine or something.

There is no free lunch.
Let the free market florish and let the people look at the options and make the choice that suits them.
Wind to me is the lesser of the evils of self made power. But it has alot of issues.like noise and such.

[ewdysar]

Short answer, no.

The solar panel question calculates out like this. The energy required to push a normal sub-compact car at a steady 50mph on level ground requires an array of photovoltaic panels the roof area of a 30’ motorhome, assuming horizontal orientation, 25% efficient panels (most panels today are less efficient) at the approximate latitude of 34 degrees. Google “World Solar Challenge” to see what break-even vehicles look like today (way better than 10 years ago).

The windmill concept is a net-loss in a closed system (the standard perpetual motion machine dilemma). Just like you can’t pump water to the top of a waterwheel driven dynamo to power the said pump, the windmill adds drag that takes more energy to overcome than the energy that it collects.

But these are good questions that are being tackled by folks that are smarter than you or me, or at least not as distracted as we are by things like Model Ts and healthy social lives...

Keep crankin’
Eric

[Burger in Spokane]

When this sort of discussion comes up, my brain turns to that old late might TV screen of
"snow" and test patterns (remember the indian ?). I have always been an aesthetics-driven
old car nut, and based on this foundation, IMO, the last cars rolled out of Detroit about 1970,
and everything made since is just Bic lighters and other throwaway ugly, that moots any deeper
discussion of "what ifs" and fascination with gadgets. I long ago gave up on this trend ever
reversing and set my sights on enjoying my old junk, and being dead before I am forced to
embrace all this new plastic junk. Further, I have too much going on in my old-stuff life to
give up room in my brain to ponder stuff that I disdain and could not care less about. That's
just me, but to quote Dirty Harry, ... "A man's gotta know his limitations" !