MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:02 pm**

I just bought a model T and not sure what year it is or body style.
I think it is a 1915. I have more pictures I can send you if anyone can help me with this.
Thanks

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:23 pm**

You can attach pictures to a thread and determine the year by checking the left side of the engine block (driver’s side in the U.S.) for a six or seven digit number (went over 1,000,000 in December, 1915) stamped into a smooth area of the block just above the water inlet. The year and day the car (or engine, if not original to the car) was manufactured can be determined from this number. Go to the old version of the encyclopedia in the research section of this site to the serial number lookup section. Jim Patrick

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:24 pm**

Common Ford body styles - Runabout is an open 2 seater, Touring is an open 4 seater , Coupe is a closed 2 seater & Sedan was a closed 4 seater

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:22 pm**

Outstanding little T! Looks like a 1911 or 1912 runabout or roadster with a mother in law seat. The two front seats should have a convertible top, but Mom’s seat was open to the elements. Sorry Mom. Seeing that it has carbide lights, It has to be pre 1915, as 1915 was the first year T’s came with electric lights. What is the engine number? Check out the link: Www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm. Jim Patrick

Here are a couple of pictures of a 1912 runabout/roadster that I found online. A real beauty!

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:33 pm**

I think that car is made to look like a very early car, however it is either a kit car or assembled from various year parts. The 1915 would not have the brass rods to support the windshield windshield. Looks more like a 1911. However the 11 would have had gas lights. The wheels are also after market off a later car. And a 15 would have a top. You can only tell what date an engine was manufactured by combination of casting dates on the block and engine number. There would be no way to trace the engine back to the original engine unless you have records from the time first sold to date. Many times engines were exchanged for new after market engines or different engines from other vehicles. The number was either ground off and re-stamped, or the registration was changed to reflect the new engine number. There are many other things to check to determine the year. A very good source is the book by Bruce McCalley "Model T Ford The car that changed the World.
Anyway the car is good looking and would attract a lot of attention and could even be "viewer's choice" in a car show, but would not win for best original car.

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:01 pm**

Sorry. I could have swore your T had gas lights, but I still feel yours is a 1911 or 1912 runabout aka roadster with the gaslights converted to electric, since that style with the Mother in law seat was one of the styles offered in 1911 and 1912. See:
www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1911.htm
www.mtfca.com/encyclo/1912.htm
Jim Patrick

1911 ad and photos of Model T Runabout/Roadster w/mother in law seat

: 9D2C20D5-6908-446E-BFC8-7D785F978642.jpeg (28.04 KiB) Viewed 4691 times

: E4DA8FFF-EBC7-40A7-ABBC-D06E23BBF13D.jpeg (27.89 KiB) Viewed 4691 times

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:18 pm**

The perches and wishbone are for a much later year - Suggest that you take some close up photos of the rear axle, hogs head, headlights etc - may be a T configured to an Owners desire

Posted: **Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:47 pm**

Parts salad. The body is similar to a 1911-12 runabout, but that extra tall firewall suggests aftermarket, probably (very nicely) home made. It has parts from various years. The hood is 15 or 16. The fenders are 1914 or earlier. The springs are 1917-18 or later. The headlights are 1915 or later (lenses 1921 or later). I can't see the coil box very well, but it appears to be wood — earlier than 1914. The front perches and wishbone are 1919 or later.The wheels are 1919 or later. The serial number (above the water inlet) will tell the date of engine assembly. The online version of the encylopedia will give you the month and year, or I can find the exact day for you.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:36 am**

Like Steve J says, a lot of bits and pieces put together.
The seats are not Ford, the lower body section may or may not be (most likely not). Some parts are probably from 1913 or 1914, many parts are after 1920.
Regardless, it could be a really fun beginning model T! Do some research, have some local T people that know the cars and parts look it over, just so you can know what you really have. Never know, could be some really valuable parts in there? (Value/worth of parts can vary greatly depending upon minor detail differences.) Do not believe wholeheartedly any one person! A lot of people make that mistake. They get told what someone else thinks it is and latch onto that and no matter how many people tell them it is wrong they continue to believe what the one person said.
Cute car, could be a lot of fun.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:55 pm**

Don’t be upset or discouraged that your T may have a compilation of parts from several years instead of being an original T with parts it originally left the factory with in 1911 or 1912. I think it is fantastic and with all the accoutrements of a 1912 runabout/roadster with a mother in law seat, such as carbide lights, white tires, a new top and a new paint job with pinstriping as well as gradually replacing non 1912 parts with1912 parts, you have a real treasure. Even if left the way it is, you can be comfortable with the philosophy that...”If it looks like a T, smells like a T, drives like a T and sounds like a T, it is T and you have a wonderfully impressive 1911 or 1912 Model T compilation that will bring smiles to everyone who sees it. I know it makes me smile just looking at it. I would love to have something like that. It would be so much fun. Jim Patrick

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:33 pm**

Cute, but a Franken-T.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:11 pm**

Enjoy driving your new find!

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:24 pm**

It would really help document what you have if you took some more pictures. The original perches for this T were two holed so the correct wishbone would ride above the axle. What you have is a safer configuration with redesigned parts. Its one of those modifications being safe or being original. And there are others to be had.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:30 pm**

Thanks guys for ALL the input on this T.
I am trying to get it titled and still not sure what year to title it. Will do some more research and try to narrow it down. Thanks for the help and input. Seems like a lot of parts from several years. But I still like it. Thanks Guys

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:42 pm**

[image][/image][quote=jiminbartow post_id=140050 time=1610580237 user_id=476]
You can attach pictures to a thread and determine the year by checking the left side of the engine block (driver’s side in the U.S.) for a six or seven digit number (went over 1,000,000 in December, 1915) stamped into a smooth area of the block just above the water inlet. The year and day the car (or engine, if not original to the car) was manufactured can be determined from this number. Go to the old version of the encyclopedia in the research section of this site to the serial number lookup section. Jim Patrick
[/quote] Thanks Jim for your help. Trying to figure out what year to title this car and what to call it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:30 pm**

You could use the date the engine was first installed and call it a custom roadster or a custom speedster. You will have to check with the DMV in your state about body types and whether a Custom Roadster or Speedster is acceptable. I have one 26 touring that is registered as 4 door. That is what the inspector called it!
Norm

Posted: **Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:48 pm**

Folks at the DMV are not experts on the Model T and whether or not it is a compilation of Model T parts from several years. It looks enough like a 1911 or 1912 Model T runabout/roadster (with mother in law seat) that you can make copies of the pictures and 1911 ad I posted here and submit the pictures to the DMV and claim your T to be a 1911 or 1912 runabout since that style was offered in only those two years. If your T does not have the original engine, it should not matter. Engine change outs were common to replace worn out or blown engines and just like on modern cars whereby a new engine does not change the year of manufacture, the Model T is the same. Even if the engine has been changed out for a later engine, it does not change the manufacture year of the car. All those plaques on the dash behind the steering column may help in establishing a history of the car. Can you post a picture of those plaques? You have a great T that has the potential to be so much greater. A diamond in the rough. Jim Patrick

PS. I don’t know if you saw where I posted it above, so I am posting it again. Click onto: www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm, which is the serial number search section from the Model T encyclopedia where you can go to check the year and month of your engine.

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:08 am**

If you have a title for the car - whatever year it says it is, is what you should title it in your state. If you bring this up with your DMV you will open up a can of worms

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:32 am**

Hey Frank,

The ending number for Jan 1924 in your picture looks wrong. Given other months production around 200,000 engines, and February’s starting number of 9232672, the ending number for January should be 9232671, not 9323671. It looks like there is a typo in wherever you copied that from...

Eric

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:53 am**

February 25, 1924

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:08 am**

Putting a 1927 engine in my 1926 coupe, would not convert my T to a 1927 T, just because the engine number says 1927. Nothing can change the fact that my T rolled off the assembly line in March of 1926. Same situation here. Just looking at the car, though it has parts from several years, it looks to be a 1911-‘12 brass era T, particularly of the runabout/roadster style mentioned above and 1911 and 1912 were the only two years with the mother in law seat. Unless you have the engine number of the original engine on some old registration papers that might have come with the car when you bought it, I think you can use the engine number as a VIN with the explanation that the engine was replaced, sometime in the past, with a newer engine, but the T is still a 1911- 1912. Perhaps the person who sold it to you can tell you more about the history of the car or has a file on it he forgot to give you, or direct you to the person he bought it from that knows. You should call him.

I would still make the changes to carbide lights and white tires and install a top to make the T look more like a 1911/‘12 and give it a new paint job with pinstriping. Getting it registered as an early brass era car would certainly make your T worth much more than if you were to get it registered as a more common 1924, because of the engine number and if you can gradually change the other obviously new parts to vintage 1911/‘12 parts, all the better. It would take a lot of research on your part to become a expert on the 1911/‘12 T and that starts with getting a copy of Bruce McCalley’s hard cover book (see photo). Regarding the expense of replacing new parts with original, you can recoup much of the replacement costs by selling the parts you take off on eBay, Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, or the classifieds on this site. Jim Patrick

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:11 pm**

Getting it registered as an early brass era car would certainly make your T worth much more than if you were to get it registered as a more common 1924...

I disagree. As Jim says, what's on the registration doesn't change what it really is, and an honest seller has to identify honestly what he's selling. That doesn't mean you shouldn't convert it from a parts salad as much as possible to look more like a real 1911-1912 Ford, or you can leave it as it is and still enjoy it.

If you want to make it more "correct" there are plenty of things to change. Example: One of your pedals is 1914 or earlier; two are 1916 or later. The Model T Encyclopedia Jim posted is a big help in figuring out the years of various features. I have the book and I have it on disk. I prefer the disk version because of all the extras that come with it. There are other resources to help you get things right if you want to take that route. I've been going through my T's and replacing some things that are "incorrect", and as I want them to be drivers rather than show cars I'm keeping or adding some things that are "wrong".

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

Posted: **Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:18 pm**

jiminbartow wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:08 am
Putting a 1927 engine in my 1926 coupe, would not convert my T to a 1927 T, just because the engine number says 1927. Nothing can change the fact that my T rolled off the assembly line in March of 1926. Same situation here. Just looking at the car, though it has parts from several years, it looks to be a 1911-‘12 brass era T, particularly of the runabout/roadster style mentioned above and 1911 and 1912 were the only two years with the mother in law seat. Unless you have the engine number of the original engine on some old registration papers that might have come with the car when you bought it, I think you can use the engine number as a VIN with the explanation that the engine was replaced, sometime in the past, with a newer engine, but the T is still a 1911- 1912. Perhaps the person who sold it to you can tell you more about the history of the car or has a file on it he forgot to give you, or direct you to the person he bought it from that knows. You should call him.

I would still make the changes to carbide lights and white tires and install a top to make the T look more like a 1911/‘12 and give it a new paint job with pinstriping. Getting it registered as an early brass era car would certainly make your T worth much more than if you were to get it registered as a more common 1924, because of the engine number and if you can gradually change the other obviously new parts to vintage 1911/‘12 parts, all the better. It would take a lot of research on your part to become a expert on the 1911/‘12 T and that starts with getting a copy of Bruce McCalley’s hard cover book (see photo). Regarding the expense of replacing new parts with original, you can recoup much of the replacement costs by selling the parts you take off on eBay, Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, or the classifieds on this site. Jim Patrick

Thanks guys I really appreciate all the input and help.

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