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Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:10 pm
by GEmering
When I purchased my 1913 Touring the previous owner replaced one rear wheel with a later demountable rim (pictured).
Is this the correct rim that I need to build an original non-demountable rim to match the other three wheels like the one pictured.
Would those with more driving/touring experience suggest two new rear rims for some driving related reason.
https://www.universaltire.com/vintage-r ... r-rim.html
Thanks!
Gene
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:28 pm
by Kevin Pharis
Looks like the right one to me... but you may want to consult the fella who will be building the wheel first
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:30 pm
by Dan Hatch
Was there not a thread about repro rims not fitting tires? Dan
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:31 pm
by GEmering
Dan,
I searched, “Repro Rims” but did not find the post that you’re referring to.
Can you give more details?
Thank you.
Gene
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:54 pm
by Kevin Pharis
Dan Hatch wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:30 pm
Was there not a thread about repro rims not fitting tires? Dan
This was about 1-2 years ago... there was a bunch of assumptions that the rims were made wrong. Templates were made, and compared with original rims, yet the profiles were never dimensionally measured nor was a specification identified. If you manage to find the thread, you will find that I made the last post, and did my best to measure the profiles of the McLaren, New Zealand, and at least 1 really nice original rim. I tried to suggest that none of the rims I measured were of the same profile, nor did they match the apparently only known rim drawing to exist. My suspicion, is that the tire profiles are just as “incorrect” as the rim profiles, and some tire/rim combinations are just prone to slipping.
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:20 pm
by Dan Hatch
That was the one. It was about tire slip. Dan
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:22 pm
by Norman Kling
The original non demountable wheels had wood felloes. The felloe is the circular part where the outer ends of the spokes fit. The steel rim is riveted to the felloe. The earlier cars had two sizes of tires. 30x3 for the front and 30x3 1/2 for the rear. The rims are different for the front and the back. The de-mountable wheels had steel felloes and the rims bolted to the felloes with lug bolts. So you will need to decide whether you want to use all de-mountable wheels all the way around which all have 30x3 1/2 tires. The same spare mounted on a spare rim will fit any of the wheels. The other choice would be to replace the other rear wheel with a 30x3 1/2 demountable to match the other side. The rims are not interchangeable. You will need to find another wheel with wood felloe with a good rim and if it is in good condition use it, or if not, have it rebuilt.
Norm
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:35 pm
by Kevin Pharis
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:27 pm
by GEmering
The car (my ‘13 touring) has the correct 30 X 3 non-demountable rims and tires on the front.
It has one correct 30 x 3.5 non-demountable rim and one non-original 30 X 3.5 demountable rim on the rear.
Am I better off looking for a good original complete wheel or good original rim?
I will take all four wheels to Stutzman’s before I do any serious driving so an original wheel would not have to be perfect.
If Stutzman’s has the rim and hub will they make the felloe and have the correct rivets to attach the felloe to the rim?
Thoughts and suggestions?
Gene
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:42 pm
by Kevin Pharis
All Stutzman needs is a hub and rim, and he will create the rest. The hub in your demountable wheel may be just fine if the taper and keyway are in good condition. And I wouldn’t hesitate to use a new rim... they are a lot easier to find than a straight, rust free, and undamaged original.
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:08 pm
by Allan
Gene, if I had a 13 T with 3" front tyres, and I was contemplating having the wheels rebuilt, I would keep the original front wheels intact, and have new fronts built to take 30 x 3.5" tyres all round, just as the Canadians did. Then you need just one size spare tyre and tube. For the purists, you will not have destroyed any original parts.
Allan from down under.
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:48 pm
by DHort
Gene
The non-demountable rims are riveted and shrunk onto the wood felloe. The rim is heated and then cooled. It might be tough to find a good rim that fits on a non-demountable wheel by itself. You might be better off trying to get a complete wheel. Then send all 4 to Stutzman. Just put the demountable wheel in the back of the garage. Check with Stutzman to see if he has the rivets and the plates that the rivets go through. Otherwise, Langs has them.
Another option is like Allan said, find another set of 30 x 3.5" and install them all the way around. If you can find 5 demountables, you will have it easy if you get a flat and can just replace the flat tire.
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:44 am
by Steve Jelf
In normal times I would suggest, if you're not in a hurry, looking for a good non-demountable 30 x 3½ at a swap meet or auction. But since those sources are not available for the duration, next best would be a parts dealer. Some specialize in used parts, and most who sell new parts also have used stuff that isn't in their catalogues. You have to ask.
I don't know what kind of hub bolts Stutzman uses, so I sent him Anderson bolts so my wheels would have the best.
**Model T Haven, KS (620) 365-6709 modelthaven@nautilus.net
*Lang’s, MA (978) 297-1919 www.modeltford.com
*Bob’s, IL (815) 633-7244 ModelT2001@comcast.net
*Snyder’s, OH (330) 549-5313 don@snydersantiqueauto.com
*Chaffin’s, CA (951) 735-4791 www.chaffinsgarage.com
**Ron Paetz, Lone Pine Enterprises, WI (608) 604-7534 lonepine@mwt.net
**Julius & Marvin Neunhoffer, TX (830) 257-8168 9hoffer@maverickbbs.com
**Dave Huson, 2116 Charro Ave. Longmont, Co. 80504
Phone 313-774-9246
email modelt112@msn.com
**Bob Hagelgantz, KS (785) 731-5285 loah@gbta.net
*Birdhaven Vintage Auto Supply, IA (515) 674-3949
*Antique Auto Ranch 2225 N. Dollar Rd. in Spokane Valley, WA 99212
(509) 535-7789
*Andy Loso
323 W MN ST
St Joseph, MN 56374
(320) 293-1953
*Steve's T Works, LLC
Model T Ford Service, Repair, New & Used Parts.
Longbranch, WA
(253) 884-1925
*Smith & Jones
60 Wisconsin Street
West Columbia
SC 29170
(803) 822-4141
* New & refurbished parts (Also used parts not advertised; you have to ask.)
** All or mostly used parts
Re: Wheel Rim Advice Please
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:31 am
by Allan
David, I know that steel buggy wheel tyres were heated and shrunk onto the felloes. The longer, solid tyres they used would respond by expanding to fit and then contract when cooled to make a tight fit. I watched a master craftsman in New Zealand make wooden felloes for the car wheels he rebuilds, but I was not aware that the rims were fitted by heating/shrinking them. For that to work I imagine the wheel is first built into one piece, before the rims were fitted. Period photos I have seen showed the two halves of the felloes and the spokes that went into them, being fitted together into the rim. I wonder if I was interpreting those photos correctly.
Allan from down under.