Windshield Hinges Question
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 190
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:32 pm
- First Name: James
- Last Name: Lightfoot
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 coupe, 26 roadster, 12 comm. roadster, 17 touring, 15 touring,25 TT truck
- Location: Colorado
- MTFCA Number: 21538
- Board Member Since: 1999
Windshield Hinges Question
What is the different applications for the even and uneven hinges? Thanks
-
- Posts: 5256
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
The uneven hinges mean the opening to the front of the car is reduced somewhat and passengers would not feel the same wind -in-the face. I believe the change was adopted in 1917 models.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
-
- Posts: 4967
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Gregush
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
- Location: Portland Or
- MTFCA Number: 52564
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
If you are asking about 1915 to 1922, 1915 to 1916 used the even hinges 1917 to 1922 used the uneven. 1923 models would have come with one man top and slanted windshields like the 1924-1925. (for US cars, Canada would have had the slanted windshield earlier)
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
Ford used a lot of different windshield hinges between 1908 and 1927. The usual reference to "even" and "uneven" folding windshield hinges has to do with the straight windshield used on open bodied model Ts (USA built) between 1915 and 1922. The even folding windshield hinges were used on 1915 open cars which were late to market that year due to production delays with the new style front cowling on the open bodies. They folded the upper windshield glass down almost even with the lower glass, with the rear facing hinge pin roughly right in the middle between the upper and lower frames. This setup was not quite satisfactory for most people, feeling it lowered the windshield a bit too low for the high speeds driven back in those days. That design did however continue on through the entire 1916 model year and into the newer black era 1917 model year. With the late start for the 1915 model year, that design was used for basically two years of production, all of the short 1915model year, all of the full 1916 model year, and the first several months of the 1917 model year.
I have never heard of a given change date, however, I would speculate that the change to the "offset" or "uneven" folding hinge was likely right around January of 1917,mybe beginning slightly before? With the hinge pin moved up about two inches above the glass split, folding the upper glass all the way back and down left the two panes a couple inches higher than the earlier design. This seemed a better way with still enough wind deflection and enough cooling breeze for hot summer days.
Early 1917 open cars are easy to spot if the windshield is folded down (two photos). A little harder to spot if the windshield is up, but look closely at the position of the hinge pin.
I have never heard of a given change date, however, I would speculate that the change to the "offset" or "uneven" folding hinge was likely right around January of 1917,mybe beginning slightly before? With the hinge pin moved up about two inches above the glass split, folding the upper glass all the way back and down left the two panes a couple inches higher than the earlier design. This seemed a better way with still enough wind deflection and enough cooling breeze for hot summer days.
Early 1917 open cars are easy to spot if the windshield is folded down (two photos). A little harder to spot if the windshield is up, but look closely at the position of the hinge pin.
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
It has a form-a-tractor kit on it, but shows the later windshield folded down fairly well. Notice the differences.
- Attachments
-
- stillshiny.jpg (74.1 KiB) Viewed 2192 times
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
A couple more later ones. One up, the other folded down. Again, notice the location of the hinge pin, well above the top of the lower glass.
- Attachments
-
- stillshinyinterestingtouring.jpg (80.38 KiB) Viewed 2190 times
-
- stillshiny1920interestingfenderlamps.jpg (84.06 KiB) Viewed 2190 times
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
It should be noted also, that the photo with the man and child looking over the wall? Is a Canadian touring car. That is the reason for the top rear window (sometimes properly referred to as "lights") being different. Also, if you look closely, you can see the driver's door opens unlike the USA built cars. Canadian model Ts used basically the same windshields as USA cars from the brass era up until about 1919 or 1920. After that, Canadian windshields became quite different. Canadian cars got slanted windshields and one-man tops a couple years before USA built cars did. Also, later Canadian windshields had both lower and upper glasses "fold" (or more correctly "swing") whereas on USA built cars only the upper glass folded up and away for ventilation.
A couple more Canadian touring cars, with the later Canadian windshields.
A couple more Canadian touring cars, with the later Canadian windshields.
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
All photos had been posted on this forum in the past. Thanks mostly to Jay in Northern Califunny and Herb, as well as others.
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
I don't offhand have any really good photos of the hinges themselves. As proper assembled units, they are easy to tell apart. The later offset/uneven fold style have one short and one long arm each side. The even fold, all the arms are short both sides. While some of the smaller pieces, springs, bolts etc, are the same or at least close enough to swap from one type to another, the four main pieces are each unique. There is a right upper, and a right lower, a left upper, and a left lower. All different and not interchangeable, at least not without major modification.
While two pieces are close enough to fit and function (right and left uppers), ALL the four major parts are different between the even and uneven hinges. There are a lot of incorrect assemblages of the even fold earlier style hinges floating around out there. It takes a bit of knowledge and a sharp eye to spot the bad ones.
There were a couple good threads on the subject last year that had good pictures and descriptions of the differences. I looked at my bookmarks hoping to find them, but did not. Guess I didn't bookmark them when I should have.
While two pieces are close enough to fit and function (right and left uppers), ALL the four major parts are different between the even and uneven hinges. There are a lot of incorrect assemblages of the even fold earlier style hinges floating around out there. It takes a bit of knowledge and a sharp eye to spot the bad ones.
There were a couple good threads on the subject last year that had good pictures and descriptions of the differences. I looked at my bookmarks hoping to find them, but did not. Guess I didn't bookmark them when I should have.
-
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:30 pm
- First Name: Jeff
- Last Name: Lee
- Location: Nova Scotia
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
Wayne
Just to confuse the issue a bit on the even folding hinges. At least here on some of our Canadian ones, there are only two actual hinge stampings, an 'inside" and "outside". Each matched pair of hinges can be installed on either side of the windshield and it will still fold correctly, but they look funny as one will look right side up and the other looks upside down.
Even the Canadian parts book which lists 4 parts, uses only 2 illustrations, and changes the part number instead. I have found and seen several even length windshield assemblies here with this installation and I'm sure if I have yet seen one that actually had 4 different stampings for the even hinges.
The uneven length hinges do require a match set of 4 stampings and look "matched" on the two sides.
Maybe Ford Canada was cheap.
Jeff
Nova Scotia
Canada
Just to confuse the issue a bit on the even folding hinges. At least here on some of our Canadian ones, there are only two actual hinge stampings, an 'inside" and "outside". Each matched pair of hinges can be installed on either side of the windshield and it will still fold correctly, but they look funny as one will look right side up and the other looks upside down.
Even the Canadian parts book which lists 4 parts, uses only 2 illustrations, and changes the part number instead. I have found and seen several even length windshield assemblies here with this installation and I'm sure if I have yet seen one that actually had 4 different stampings for the even hinges.
The uneven length hinges do require a match set of 4 stampings and look "matched" on the two sides.
Maybe Ford Canada was cheap.
Jeff
Nova Scotia
Canada
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
NS Jeff, Interesting. It could be fun to get a bunch of known parts laid out on a table and compare all the minor variations.
I came back looking for this thread. I was searching through some year's past forums trying to find some threads I had bookmarked for my own research, but the bookmarks were lost when my computer did a partial meltdown. While looking, I stumbled across a tread showing some decent photos of genuine 1915/'16 hinges, and wanted to put a link here for anyone that may want to see the early hinges. I still haven't found the threads showing a comparison between the early and later hinges. But at least this link does show the early ones fairly well.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1516810135
A little difficult to describe. But other than the long and short arms of the later hinges, the most obvious difference between the earlier hinges and the later uneven fold hinges is around the detents. The earlier ones have a circle going all around the hinge linking all the detents. The later hinges are a bit more flat with just the detent bumps, not connected. This is why one cannot simply modify later hinges and make them fit an earlier windshield. It will work, but anyone knowing these parts can spot them very easily. There are numerous other minor differences that can really only be seen looking at early and late hinge pieces side by side.
Often, when discussing these hinges, the word "offset" is used. While the word is appropriate, it is confusing. There are actually two significant "offsets" to be discussed. One needs to be clear about which offset is being discussed. I throw this out there simply to try to get other people to understand the need for clarity when attempting to discuss these things.
One offset is that the upper glass is offset forward very slightly from the lower glass. This is so that rain hits the upper windshield and flows down dropping off ahead of the lower glass. One doesn't want the rain all running into the car and soaking one's feet!
The other offset is that the later hinges are often said to be "offset" because the hinge pin is moved up over an inch to raise the edge of the upper glass above the lower glass and afford a bit more wind protection with the glass folded.
I came back looking for this thread. I was searching through some year's past forums trying to find some threads I had bookmarked for my own research, but the bookmarks were lost when my computer did a partial meltdown. While looking, I stumbled across a tread showing some decent photos of genuine 1915/'16 hinges, and wanted to put a link here for anyone that may want to see the early hinges. I still haven't found the threads showing a comparison between the early and later hinges. But at least this link does show the early ones fairly well.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1516810135
A little difficult to describe. But other than the long and short arms of the later hinges, the most obvious difference between the earlier hinges and the later uneven fold hinges is around the detents. The earlier ones have a circle going all around the hinge linking all the detents. The later hinges are a bit more flat with just the detent bumps, not connected. This is why one cannot simply modify later hinges and make them fit an earlier windshield. It will work, but anyone knowing these parts can spot them very easily. There are numerous other minor differences that can really only be seen looking at early and late hinge pieces side by side.
Often, when discussing these hinges, the word "offset" is used. While the word is appropriate, it is confusing. There are actually two significant "offsets" to be discussed. One needs to be clear about which offset is being discussed. I throw this out there simply to try to get other people to understand the need for clarity when attempting to discuss these things.
One offset is that the upper glass is offset forward very slightly from the lower glass. This is so that rain hits the upper windshield and flows down dropping off ahead of the lower glass. One doesn't want the rain all running into the car and soaking one's feet!
The other offset is that the later hinges are often said to be "offset" because the hinge pin is moved up over an inch to raise the edge of the upper glass above the lower glass and afford a bit more wind protection with the glass folded.
-
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Saylor
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Touring, 1927 Tudor
- Location: Citrus Heights, Ca
- MTFCA Number: 1695
- MTFCI Number: 23870
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
Here is a side by side comparison of the hinges. The later hinge has a longer bottom mounting thus moving the hinge point above center. I discovered sometime ago that I have the wrong windshield on my 21 Touring. One of these days I need to change out the hinges.
-
- Posts: 3672
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
Thank you John S! That should help some people a lot.
It also illustrates the forward offset fairly well.
It also illustrates the forward offset fairly well.
-
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:30 pm
- First Name: Jeff
- Last Name: Lee
- Location: Nova Scotia
Re: Windshield Hinges Question
Hi All
Here is some additional information on the differences between hinges.
I believe it goes something like, left '15 to sometime in '16. Middle sometime in '16 to '17. And on the right, '18 to '19 Canada, later in the US.
If you look close, the one on the left has a raised ridge between the indents and the middle one doesn't.
Drive Safe
Jeff
Nova Scotia
Here is some additional information on the differences between hinges.
I believe it goes something like, left '15 to sometime in '16. Middle sometime in '16 to '17. And on the right, '18 to '19 Canada, later in the US.
If you look close, the one on the left has a raised ridge between the indents and the middle one doesn't.
Drive Safe
Jeff
Nova Scotia