MTFCA Forum

I briefly considered extending the title to include 1917-1925 non-electric cars too, but then sometime late in 1916 Canada switched to Cast Iron for the hogshead, whereas here in the US this change was made according to Bruce's book in late 1915. Foreign markets always seem to be a bit behind domestic changes, but we also know that Canada kept the ribbed pedals clear through 1925 and I've wondered if they kept the Reverse Pedal ribbed through 1926-1927 also.

Now the reason that I can't extend the title to include the 1917-1925's is because the Cast Iron Hogshead is a bit different, the mounting flange around the base of the head is thicker and there are no gussets at the corners either and there are reinforcement webs in the lower corner of the inspection cover flange. These changes are minute sure, but they are definitely noticeable to anyone who has one...sooo, I guess there will be another drawing reflecting those small differences, because the P/N didn't change, it stayed the same, the Factory Number on the other hand did change, but these are all drawn in Vendor Part Numbers not Ford Factory Part Numbers. When I've got a completed Chassis from 1909-1927. Then I'll put in the factory numbers and their change dates and these drawings will start looking like a real Illustrated Parts Manual...and yes I plan to compile them into book format too.

Hi Martynn

Neat, and very impressive drawing.

I'll have to try to get some more pictures for you over the weekend. I think there may be a couple more differences that you may not be aware of.

For example, the pedal shafts are different lengths on the RHD vs LHD and aren't inter-changable. I also think that one of the pedals in your current drawing may have a slightly different shape.

I also have a couple of the RHD cast iron hogs heads, non-starter version in the barn somewhere too.

Drive Safe
Jeff
Nova Scotia

Martynn, lettered pedals on RHD cars read C R B, making the brake pedal on the right. Accordingly, the brake pedal needs to be bent/angled to the right side. The removable clutch pedal is canted to the left.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

Hi Martynn

Hear are a few pictures of a '14/15 Canadian RHD hogs head with the pedals still in place. Although the pedals are lettered, the shape of the pedals and pedal arms is essentially the same for all that I've seen at least up to '20 or so.

This may help with your drawings.

Drive Safe
Jeff
Nova Scotia

Ok, so you're saying that the 1915's had lettered pedals? When did the ribbed pedals start?

Something else that may be unique to Canadian Hogs, with the transition to cast iron, come across this one in having the support ribs that are much larger than what was added to the later aluminium ones and larger than what's on later 16+ cast hogs, The pedals are ribbed ones on this cast iron one.

Hi Martynn

For the '15 CDN cars, I think the change from lettered to ribbed pedals happened some time through the year. My '15 roadster had a mix of pedal, the two pinned in place were lettered, the removeable clutch pedal was ribbed. So its possible that early '15 CDN still used lettered pedals, and by the end of '15 the change to ribbed pedals had worked its way through.

Its a bit like the fork mounted head lights. CDN cars used them through '15 and didn't "officially" change over until '16 (supported by parts books as well as pictures).

Parts came over from the US in batches during that time and I suspect some changes were late as it took a while for the parts pile to go down. Also possible is that the branch plants were slower again in making the change as parts and knocked down cars were shipped around the country. Many of our Eastern Canada Ts around that time were assembled in a branch plant in New Brunswick (next door to Nova Scotia). And also effecting manufacturing and shipping in Canada in 1915 was that Canada was also gearing up to produce military supplies as we were involved in WW1 at the time. Although Ford Canada didn't participate too much in military supply area until later in war.

And something for Frank. Just to show that Ts are rarely consistent. I have a RHD Canadian hogshead that came attached to a '16 block. Its cast iron and doesn't have the extra re-enforcing ribs shown in your picture. Those extra ribs may have been added a bit later in the teens. I believe that Ford Canada didn't really get its own foundry up and running until around 1919 when they started to cast Canadian blocks and maybe that is when the different hogs heads were made.

Drive Safe
Jeff
Nova Scotia

Jeff, agreed, we will never really know on time lines of change on the Canadian changes compared to the better records of the USA. As you posted, many have stated that Canadian block casting started in 1919 but yet I have in the workshop a Made in Canada block with casting date 2-18-18

Hi Kerry

Sounds like some records may need to be updated. I have been told 1919 for the Ford Canada foundry.

But to support your comments. I went back into my files searching for a picture of the engine in a Canadian 1918 nearby. It appears to also be a 1918 cast Canadian block. Not real clear in the picture, but the DA of Canada is below the steering column. Casting date appears to be 3-2-18 and the serial C151XXX. And a later picture of the restored engine showed it was clearly a Made in Canada block, but you can't read the casting date in the fresh paint.

The starter in the second picture may be deceiving. The owner added a starter hogshead and starter when restoring the car.

Drive Safe.
Jeff
Nova Scotia

Ok, lets try this again....according to Bruce's parts list compilations, there was no difference between the adjusting screws (3419) from each other or from the LHD cars either. The pedal shafts were a bit shorter and had different part numbers entirely (3435R) and were the same for both the brake and the reverse pedals. The Pedals bore the same numbers as the LHD cars with the addition of the letter "R" on the end, which of course stood for RHD, in fact most of the common parts that were the same but needed to be different for RHD usually had the letter "R" tacked to the end of the LHD part number, like the Transmission Cover Hogs Head (3376R).

What I did do so as to differentiate it from the other 1915 assembly is to add the (Late) after 1915, because about that time late in 1915 the Ribbed pedals came to be standard. The earlier assembly 1914-1915 to mid way through 1915 letter pedals were used and near the middle of 1915 the pegged pedals still bore the lettered pedals.

Things get kind or confusing about the last part of 1914, because the addition of the gussets seems to have first appeared on the hoghead at that time, which of course is early model year 1915. So I am assuming that 1914 proper and all earlier cars didn't have those gussets as the later aluminum hogs heads had. I am also finding it hard to find many RHD T's prior to 1914, does anybody know when Ford produced the first Model T in RHD?

Slight goof, wrong Revision Number.

Made a modification to the earlier drawing and decided to make all the drawing the same.

Sometimes I forget things, like the lobe that the clutch arm goes through on the bottom on the Clutch Pedal...the car would have a really hard time getting very far without that.

Revision 1-C

Hi Martynn

I'm fascinated by your drawings. As a mechanical engineer I can appreciate the work it takes to make the drawings, something I can't do myself.

I would suggest taking another look at the clutch and brake pedals for the RHD in the pictures. Both pedals have some significant bends in the pedals to get them in the right position. With your drawing being a 3 D angular project they can be hard to show. In the current view they look fairly straight when they actually have some real sharp bends in them, especially the brake pedal. The reverse pedal is nearly straight, with the offset right down at the boss for the shaft.

But please keep the drawings coming.

Jeff
Nova Scotia
Canada

Jeff, I've tried to make the brake pedal as close to what I've seen of its bends as possible. But the angle upon which I've drawn the hogshead, doesn't lend itself to showing it as it really looks in 3D...in 2D it is a bit harder to give the correct depth to slight angles as they would actually appear. If you will notice the bend on the clutch pedal and the bend on the brake pedal are in opposite directions for each other. I know that the reverse pedal is nearly straight, so are you saying that it hasn't got that bend on it like I'm showing, that it comes off the boss on that angle without a bend? Do you have a picture of one of these pedals outside of the hogshead?, something like a side view, so I can see where it comes off the boss.

Jeff, hope this is more in line with what you had in mind. Went back and took a closer look at those pedals and their bends. One of the pictures I've got shows a rather severe bend to the right on the Brake pedal.


This not how Ford depicts them, the pedals are all evenly spaced from each other much like they appear on the LHD cars. But I can see the advantages of such a bend, my guess is that some owner did that because he kept hitting the Reverse pedal along with the Brake pedal and probably stalling the car (any two pedals hit at the same time will stall the engine...it's one of the last resort panic stop techniques). I had to do it just once myself, kept me from hitting some lousy Japanese "shoe skate" from behind when he cut me off on PCH 1. Needless to say, scared the shit out of him by the look in his eyes in his rear view mirror as my car kept getting closer and closer with no signs of stopping, than he or I was comfortable with. I finally had to turn by jumping the curb, crossing the sidewalk and coming to a stop in a parking lot, cussing a blue streak over what kind of imbecile he was and questioning the legitimacy of his parentage too! Since then I drive more like a Motorcycle rider than a car driver...watching absolutely EVERYBODY! Their front wheels even slightly makes a move in my direction I start hitting the brake.

Hi Martynn,
This is a 1915 brake pedal which shows the amount of RH bend
You will notice the pedal leaves the end connected to the shaft at a steep angle to the right and then bends back vertical

Jeff, ok how about this.....

Revision 2-A

Hi Martynn

That does look better.

I'm still very impressed by your drawings. Especially when I think in some of these cases you are working from pictures only without much for dimensional information.

Stay well
Jeff
Nova Scotia
Canada