MTFCA Forum

Only because you are different Les!

LOL!

Hank

Anyone ever run one of these at cam speed? Wondering how it would work at the slower rotation speed. It ran cam speed in the 210 engine so. . . .

I suppose if the gear could be obtained it wouldn’t be too difficult

Wondering how it would work at the slower rotation speed.

Probably a good test would be to run at crank speed. Just use a crank gear.

Hi Dan. I have a Matco cross drive plus I have a Bosch side drive with a rebuilt clockwise mag. The Matco turns anticlockwise. In theory could I run the B210 oil pump off the Matco drive and reverse the in and out pump connections or would the oil filter flow be messed up ? What about using a remote oil filter mount to correct the flow direction to solve this problem ? Would making a pump mount bracket for the Matco pose problems ?
If I used the side drive mount and gear to mount and drive the oil pump and then run a repo Bosch front plate with VW distributor would that be easier to make work keeping the oil pump on cam side of engine ?
Kevin M. in Madera Ca.

Kevin
In my opinion the advantage of the B210 pump is the integral oil filter and relief valve. If you reverse it then these features are lost!! Lots of other pump options without these features.

Thanks Les, it is the filter mount why you like the B210 pump. The side drive mount would work as it turns clock wise, like the generator, but at cam speed. The filter would be pointing up, little messy to change, but should work.

All the mag drives turn at crank speed, and the mags have a built in 2:1 reduction for the distributor cap to run at cam speed. The generator gear runs faster than crank speed (I don’t recall how much faster...?), and it sure makes the B210 pump... PUMP! My speedster motor used to idle at 75 psi, and peg the 100 psi gage at about 2000 rpm. I cut down the bypass spring and have it idling at about 30 psi now, and 50+ psi at speed.

If you were to adapt a B210 pump to a mag drive, the adapter would not be near as simple. The mags are mounted with 2 bolts into a lower base, and the B210 pump bolts directly to the face of a casting

Kevin, I don't plan on doing this anyway, but running the pump at generator speed didn't you have a oil volume problem even with the deep sump, or did you use a oil
tank, from the deep sump it seems that you would run the risk of sucking air at speed. Thanks for the mag drive info, it has been a while since I looked at the drive gear, if I had thought about it more I would have realized that gear was smaller thain a cam gear.

Plenty of oil to go around in this motor...
Bout 12 quarts worth of room down there. Mostly to clear the oil distribution manifold and pickup tube. I still run the stock oil level, but there is a baffle at the rear of the front sump that catches the oil from the flywheel and pulls it to the front sump. The front sump will hold about 11 quarts, and has 2 small drain holes to refill the flywheel area. The idea is to starve the flywheel of oil at speed to limit drag, yet ensure there is always a small amount in there to sling over the trans. The pickup tube is at the rear of the front sump area (you can see the small aluminum clean out plate in the pic)

But at least I don’t have to worry about the pan flexing under the pedal pressure

Kevin P
That is really good useful information about your experience with the B210 pump!!
Interesting that the relief valve couldn’t keep up!
I am going to look at re-engineering the bracketing to drive the pump with a crank gear (so at crank speed). Fortunately I have the block drawings, so I can accurately determine the desired pump location. I will see how low I can get it as well. Essentially it will replace the generator bracket.

My only gripe about the B210 pump is that the original generator drive gear gets cantilevered off the end of the B210 shaft with an adapter bushing. Turns out it’s not a very big gripe, since my pump has been operating trouble free for 10+ years and probably 10,000+ miles.

Kevins comment regarding the bypass- the bypass valve is capable of bypassing the extra oil but the pump has no provision for adjusting the bypass pressure other than changing the spring force. The only way to do that is to shorten the factory spring to lower the preload or replace it with a spring with a lower spring rate.

Kevin and Dan
Thank you for all the good practical advice!
As I said I have never run the B210 pump before.
VW, yes!! Flathead V8, getting close but I am comfortable with my design.

What kind of price did you get for a pump? The last one I priced was $179.00 You do not buy a dozen at a time at that price. What kind of check
valve do you use ? Thanks Mike

How many B210 pumps do you want? I have about 40 on the shelf. Pump, adapter, fittings, mounting bolts, gasket, oil filter (no gear installed) you finish up, $200.00 plus shipping. I am moving on to other interest/projects. Email Only if interested.

Hank

Another option to lower pressure in an oil pump is to have a relieve exiting, meaning as I have found out the lubrication to the bands on top of the hogs head you can increase the flow or restrict as you want for pressure. This prevents high heat build up within the oil pump causing damage. More volume in motion becomes cooling.

Just in my experiences,

Hank

O'reilly Auto Parts still have them or had them on the shelf the last time I checked with them. I use to make the adapter for the generator to the pump
location. Another pump that worked very well, was off of a 1938 Plymouth and it fit under the hogs head and was driven on the back of the cam.

One thing that is important to do is putting a screen filter on the suction side, pickup tube also. Any lint from the bands going through the system will
clog up and you can burn up an engine or rocker system. We found this out the hard way on a DO.

The pipe nipple pointing up is the priming connection. Typically only needed after a oil change or sitting for a long time

I know keeping it simple is best but . . .
Looking at Les' pump drive , what if you stacked gears & made a gear reduction for the pump .
Like the change gears in a Quick change rear end ?

Pete
The thought of a chain reduction drive comes to mind. Probably a lot more economical than a stack of gears!!

I like the sound of dumping the overflow to the transmission. Nice install Les.