1920s racer
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
1920s racer
New to the page. My 13 year old and I have really gotten into model Ts. He came up with some rules for a build I wanted to do and thought I would get some expert advice. I’m building a 20s racer and the rules are the parts have to be model T or model T era. Parts could be made but had to be made the period ways. I will admit I cheated a bit because of my welding tactics. Just seeing what people think.
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Re: 1920s racer
Beautiful work! I love the intake and exhaust!
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Re: 1920s racer
Looking forward to seeing more on the build. All interesting and looking good! Thanks for sharing.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Re: 1920s racer
I’m really curious about the last picture with the worm gear???
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Re: 1920s racer
I don’t recognize the trans off hand... but with a single sliding gear and the worm drive stickin out the wrong end... Is it safe to assume that we are looking at a truck underdrive installed backwards to provide overdrive...? Wouldn’t be the first time this has happened as this was an old salt lakes trick. But I question the ability of most T engines to pull the gear as many of the gear splitters for trucks are 40+%. Hopefully someone has counted the teeth prior to going thru all the effort to adapt
I’m more curious about the aluminum radiator...? And where the driver is going to put their legs with the motor moved back 18”...?
I’m more curious about the aluminum radiator...? And where the driver is going to put their legs with the motor moved back 18”...?
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Re: 1920s racer
Certainly a seriously BIG radiator!!
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Re: 1920s racer
Nice job! a few comments on your radius rod anchor points- the rear radius rod ends need to be in alignment with your u-joint ball where they attach to the frame in order to prevent binding when the rear end moves up and down. Same with your front- looks like you have two different anchor locations for the upper and what appears to be a lower radius rod. These need to anchor to the frame in a single location. What you appear to have will bind up when the axles move up and down.
At least you are at a point in the project where you can correct this. Keep posting progress pictures!
At least you are at a point in the project where you can correct this. Keep posting progress pictures!
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Re: 1920s racer
loved the 4 Holley NHs.
"The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
Kevin nailed it. It’s a tt under drive turned around.Les Schubert wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:53 amI’m really curious about the last picture with the worm gear???
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Topic author - Posts: 40
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- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
Thanks I appreciate the comment. I’ll take a better look at the geometry the rear seems to stay free when tweaking it but that’s not under load. That’s just cranking the motor over while in gear.Dan McEachern wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:04 pmNice job! a few comments on your radius rod anchor points- the rear radius rod ends need to be in alignment with your u-joint ball where they attach to the frame in order to prevent binding when the rear end moves up and down. Same with your front- looks like you have two different anchor locations for the upper and what appears to be a lower radius rod. These need to anchor to the frame in a single location. What you appear to have will bind up when the axles move up and down.
At least you are at a point in the project where you can correct this. Keep posting progress pictures!
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Re: 1920s racer
The rear won’t give you issues until the torque tube goes in. Then you will be triangulated, just as your front end is now
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
Thanks I’ll get into why better once I figure out how to get the cam to fit 1.700 intake and 1.500 exhaust valves. 9.5 compression head. The head is slightly modified also.
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Re: 1920s racer
9.5:1 is a lot for a flathead... not necessarily because of the bearings, but instead the lack of efficiency of the combustion chamber. I have a hell of a time with detonation at 7.5:1 in mine. Make sure your cam has plenty of overlap to bleed off some of the dynamic compression pressure
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
Definitely does had the cam custom ground. But I honestly don’t know much about Ts it may not be enough over lap. This motor is going to be a test motor just so I can learn things the hard way same with the intake. It may work it may not.Kevin Pharis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:11 pm9.5:1 is a lot for a flathead... not necessarily because of the bearings, but instead the lack of efficiency of the combustion chamber. I have a hell of a time with detonation at 7.5:1 in mine. Make sure your cam has plenty of overlap to bleed off some of the dynamic compression pressure
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Re: 1920s racer
With the 1.7 intakes what are you running for a head gasket? Conventional one is going to be REALLY close to the valves!
I have run a T engine with a VERY aggressive camshaft and ended up creating 4 intake ports to get a decent bottom end torque. Pulled strong to 4500 rpm where the valves would start to float with stock T springs.
I have run a T engine with a VERY aggressive camshaft and ended up creating 4 intake ports to get a decent bottom end torque. Pulled strong to 4500 rpm where the valves would start to float with stock T springs.
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
Correct there isn’t a head gasket. Stock ones won’t work. I’m going to either make one or o ring the block. I really haven’t gotten far with the engine. I’m still figuring out the chassis and drive line. But as for the porting I did the same. The intake is oval but i machined out the ports and filled them back in creating 4 ports basically. When I get back more into the engine I’ll post some better pictures.Les Schubert wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:43 pmWith the 1.7 intakes what are you running for a head gasket? Conventional one is going to be REALLY close to the valves!
I have run a T engine with a VERY aggressive camshaft and ended up creating 4 intake ports to get a decent bottom end torque. Pulled strong to 4500 rpm where the valves would start to float with stock T springs.
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Re: 1920s racer
Are you planning on running those carbs or are they just there for mock up?
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
To the model T engine gods. I’m a fabricator, machinist, and a pretty good engine builder, I should say modern engine builder.
I really don’t know much about model T engine’s. So any advice, questions, or ideas, are welcome. I’m trying to learn the engine as I go. As far as I am concerned. I’m really pushing my luck with its ability. But experiments are how you learn.
Thanks Kyle
I really don’t know much about model T engine’s. So any advice, questions, or ideas, are welcome. I’m trying to learn the engine as I go. As far as I am concerned. I’m really pushing my luck with its ability. But experiments are how you learn.
Thanks Kyle
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Re: 1920s racer
I had noticed that you are looking at using a tt aux trans backward for an overdrive. What do you end up with on final? I think that the overdrive is a great idea.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
I ended up with a 1.75 to 1 over drive which is a bit much but I’m still going to give it a try.John Warren wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:40 amI had noticed that you are looking at using a tt aux trans backward for an overdrive. What do you end up with on final? I think that the overdrive is a great idea.
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Re: 1920s racer
Might want to calculate your final drive @ 55 mph to engine RPM (1750 RPM flat head), (2000 RPM overhead) is in the sweet spot. Possible 10, 9, 8 tooth pinion gear would get you there depending on your outer circumference of the tires being used. You will need a lower support coming from the top of the oil pan attachment bolts to help support the extra weight from that intake combo. They like to rip out with all that mass. You have a lot of intake volume there too, do not know what method you are using to calculate volume (manometer pressure?)or are you installing "Chokes" and going for appearance? Looking interesting Cool!
Hank
Hank
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Topic author - Posts: 40
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- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
I’m going with the stock pinion for now. But I believe you’re correct I’ll be going with a smaller pinion eventually. As for the intake ( I really should have taken pictures) the inside is baffled. Basically two carbs for the front two cylinders and two for the back. It does have an impulse port on the inside to try to equalize the intake pulses. I’m really not sure it’s going to work. Just an experiment to learn from.Henry K. Lee wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:20 pmMight want to calculate your final drive @ 55 mph to engine RPM (1750 RPM flat head), (2000 RPM overhead) is in the sweet spot. Possible 10, 9, 8 tooth pinion gear would get you there depending on your outer circumference of the tires being used. You will need a lower support coming from the top of the oil pan attachment bolts to help support the extra weight from that intake combo. They like to rip out with all that mass. You have a lot of intake volume there too, do not know what method you are using to calculate volume (manometer pressure?)or are you installing "Chokes" and going for appearance? Looking interesting Cool!
Hank
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Re: 1920s racer
I think running it without tires is going to prove exceeding dangerous
in the curves, and really hamper getting your built engine's power to
the pavement.
in the curves, and really hamper getting your built engine's power to
the pavement.
More people are doing it today than ever before !
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
actually I have a set of steel 27 Chevy wheels I’m making hubs for to fit the T. Also thinking about using T late model drum brakes on the front cable activated to the brake equalizer set up going to the rear.Burger in Spokane wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:42 pmI think running it without tires is going to prove exceeding dangerous
in the curves, and really hamper getting your built engine's power to
the pavement.
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Re: 1920s racer
Kile you can easily re-drill the wheels to the model t wood hubs. Use the standard hub plate on the out-side.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
- Last Name: Hill
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
I should have explained better. I am using original T hubs. I press fit 1” thick steel plates on to the hubs with correct shoulder for the Chevy wheels and re-drill the rims. I’m planning on using the T outer plate also.John Warren wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:43 pmKile you can easily re-drill the wheels to the model t wood hubs. Use the standard hub plate on the out-side.
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Topic author - Posts: 40
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- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
John I just noticed your profile picture. Can you post some pictures of that car please?Khill0105 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:38 amI should have explained better. I am using original T hubs. I press fit 1” thick steel plates on to the hubs with correct shoulder for the Chevy wheels and re-drill the rims. I’m planning on using the T outer plate also.John Warren wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:43 pmKile you can easily re-drill the wheels to the model t wood hubs. Use the standard hub plate on the out-side.
Thanks Kyle
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Re: 1920s racer
Bobtail racer, Nice. You can look at my build on the forum, Race Car Project. Thank you for sharing your build. Love seeing stuff like this!
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Re: 1920s racer
I just did a little math and at 60mph with standard T gears (3.63-1) the engine is turning around 2450 rpm. With a counterbalanced and pressure oiled system no problem.
At 100 mph around 4,000 rpm. Again quite doable.
I really have to question the MONSTER overdrive!
At 100 mph around 4,000 rpm. Again quite doable.
I really have to question the MONSTER overdrive!
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
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- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
I agree with you it may not work I’m just trying things. Honestly I’m not sure about the hole build. I know nothing about Ts I have a few but there all stock. Basically this is all an experiment and learning lesson for me. I just really enjoy building things and trying to figure stuff out.Les Schubert wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:55 pmI just did a little math and at 60mph with standard T gears (3.63-1) the engine is turning around 2450 rpm. With a counterbalanced and pressure oiled system no problem.
At 100 mph around 4,000 rpm. Again quite doable.
I really have to question the MONSTER overdrive!
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
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- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
That’s really cool. Love it.John Warren wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:04 amBobtail racer, Nice. You can look at my build on the forum, Race Car Project. Thank you for sharing your build. Love seeing stuff like this! IMG_1932~photo.PNG
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
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- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
. That’s really cool
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Topic author - Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:33 am
- First Name: Kyle
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 depot hack. 1924 4door 1920s racer 1923 TT
- Location: Marion Ohio
Re: 1920s racer
I would like to to build a duel engine T but completely different from what I’ve seen. But I need to learn the engine first
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Re: 1920s racer
Most definitely, LIKE! Dave in Bellingham