What safety wire?
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Topic author - Posts: 6498
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What safety wire?
The .020" safety wire I have is too easily broken to suit me. Of course no local stores sell safety wire of any size at all. So before I go shopping online I'll ask here. What do you old hands at Model T reassembly recommend?
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: What safety wire?
Menards has some good stiff wire that ties and twist pretty good, Bob
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Re: What safety wire?
Aviation stainless steel - comes in assorted gauge.
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Re: What safety wire?
Aviation stainless steel - comes in assorted gauge.
Yes, that's what I have, but the .020" is too easily broken. That's why I asked. What size works best?
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Re: What safety wire?
I have always used the 0.041" diameter wire with no problems, it works/fits for every location on the T. I definitely would not use anything less than the 0.032" diameter wire, but I prefer the 0.041" diameter. As you have stated, the 0.020" diameter will break too easily.
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Re: What safety wire?
Adam told me to get the 0.041, so that is what I have.
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Re: What safety wire?
Steve, In a pinch and if you can't get what you want locally try a building materials store that sells rebar. They should sell wire for tieing rebar. I don't know if it will meet your needs but you could check a local store. I have a large role of stainless steel safety wire I bought at Harbor Freight and it lasts a long time, so where ever you buy it on line get enough to last a while.
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Re: What safety wire?
Try this:
https://shop.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/s ... afety-wire
Full disclosure: I have the pleasure of working at Van's.
https://shop.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/s ... afety-wire
Full disclosure: I have the pleasure of working at Van's.
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Topic author - Posts: 6498
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Re: What safety wire?
Excellent! There's a HF store just a half hour down the road. That will save me some time. Thanks to all.
https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q= ... ock%20wire
https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q= ... ock%20wire
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Re: What safety wire?
Aviation safety wire as mentioned by others is good stuff. It is quite malleable and not as prone to breakage from twisting as other wires. Since we're talking aviation grade stainless safety wire, a good size guide is the FAA aviation mechanics manual AC 43.13-1B. Here is what the good book has to say:
"b. When using double-twist method of safety wiring, .032 inch minimum diameter wire should be used on parts that have a hole diameter larger than .045 inch. Safety wire of .020 inch diameter (double strand) may be used on parts having a nominal hole diameter between .045 and .062 inch with a spacing between parts of less than 2 inches. When using the single-wire method, the largest size wire that the hole will accommodate should be used......."
Notice that there is no specific mention of .041 wire in that paragraph, although the .032 is specified as a miniumum. The only specific mention of .041 is in the section on safety wiring cable turnbuckles and propellor mounting bolts. Since Model T's don't use propellors or control cables, you could just stick to .032 and be good to go.
"b. When using double-twist method of safety wiring, .032 inch minimum diameter wire should be used on parts that have a hole diameter larger than .045 inch. Safety wire of .020 inch diameter (double strand) may be used on parts having a nominal hole diameter between .045 and .062 inch with a spacing between parts of less than 2 inches. When using the single-wire method, the largest size wire that the hole will accommodate should be used......."
Notice that there is no specific mention of .041 wire in that paragraph, although the .032 is specified as a miniumum. The only specific mention of .041 is in the section on safety wiring cable turnbuckles and propellor mounting bolts. Since Model T's don't use propellors or control cables, you could just stick to .032 and be good to go.
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Re: What safety wire?
@Steve Jelf - I'm a little interested as to exactly what use on your T this is intended for?
My reason for asking is that I seem to recall some discussion around lock wire disintegrating on gudgeon pinch bolts, hence people using split pins?
I've not looked, but I expect that discussion would be easily found. I've no particular view on this myself, but having used lock wire on many aeroplanes (without issue) I was interested to hear of this apparent issue.
If it is really a 'thing' then it seems to me it might be worth further research if you were intending using the wire internal to the engine.
My reason for asking is that I seem to recall some discussion around lock wire disintegrating on gudgeon pinch bolts, hence people using split pins?
I've not looked, but I expect that discussion would be easily found. I've no particular view on this myself, but having used lock wire on many aeroplanes (without issue) I was interested to hear of this apparent issue.
If it is really a 'thing' then it seems to me it might be worth further research if you were intending using the wire internal to the engine.
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Re: What safety wire?
Luke: The only place externally to use safety wire, as far as I can remember, is the wishbone studs under the pan. You have to wire the two stud nuts together to keep hem from packing out of the pan. Internally there are several in the transmission and ring gear bolts in the rear end.
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Re: What safety wire?
Safety wire used on many more locations on pre 1921 cars. The closed driveshaft spool, the front engine mount engine pan nose cap are two that I can think of.
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Re: What safety wire?
Oh Ya. That closed drive shaft spool, studs instead of bolts. Out of sight out of mind.
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Re: What safety wire?
...and the two lower bolts at the fourth main.
The soft pliable wire used in wire tie hay balers is very handy. When not using it for safety wiring, it makes a good oxy welding filler rod. Just don't try using it for bailing out your boat.
Allan from down under.
The soft pliable wire used in wire tie hay balers is very handy. When not using it for safety wiring, it makes a good oxy welding filler rod. Just don't try using it for bailing out your boat.
Allan from down under.
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Re: What safety wire?
Langs lists .040 stainless wire for a buck and a half in theit hardware section near the back of the (old) book. Cheers, Bill
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Re: What safety wire?
Just in case anyone's interested I found a couple of the threads where (for gudgeon/wrist pins) the use of lock wire vs split pins vs lock washers was mentioned:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9272
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6381
I wouldn't say it was discussed widely, nor in depth, however it's something that is perhaps worth thinking about.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9272
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6381
I wouldn't say it was discussed widely, nor in depth, however it's something that is perhaps worth thinking about.
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Re: What safety wire?
Hmmm,....call me crazy, but somehow, the two terms,...."safety wire" and Harbor 'Freight don't quite sound quite right to me!
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Re: What safety wire?
I use .032" stainless steel aircraft safety wire throughout ... engine, transmission and rear end.
If you want a challenge you can use .041"
And if you are a glutton for punishment, use .062"
If you want a challenge you can use .041"
And if you are a glutton for punishment, use .062"
Respectfully Submitted,
Be_Zero_Be
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For every Absolute Model T Fact there are at least three exceptions.
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Re: What safety wire?
2nighthawks said
"Hmmm,....call me crazy, but somehow, the two terms,...."safety wire" and Harbor 'Freight don't quite sound quite right to me!"
I wasn't going to say it Harold, but dittos ! The real thing is only a buck more.
Dick
"Hmmm,....call me crazy, but somehow, the two terms,...."safety wire" and Harbor 'Freight don't quite sound quite right to me!"
I wasn't going to say it Harold, but dittos ! The real thing is only a buck more.
Dick
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Re: What safety wire?
I'm a little interested as to exactly what use on your T this is intended for?
The places I have in mind immediately are the four mag ring bolts and the four flywheel bolts. For the wishbone and the lower ball cap bolts I use the Standard Ford Repair Kit — ordinary baling wire.
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Re: What safety wire?
Aircraft Safety Wire is annealed stainless steel, the annealing makes it less prone to fatigue and easier to bend without breaking
0.032 is most commonly used on Ts but 0.041 works fine too.
And try to buy or borrow the special pliers for it, it makes the work a lot easier and neater !!
0.032 is most commonly used on Ts but 0.041 works fine too.
And try to buy or borrow the special pliers for it, it makes the work a lot easier and neater !!
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Re: What safety wire?
Funny how long the plain old type non stainless steel wire lasted for all those years! Not all stainless is non magnetic, so you might want to check if first if you use. Yes I do use stainless on the inside, well most of the time.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
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Re: What safety wire?
fwiw, when removing the differential from my coupe yesterday I found the bottom two ball cap-engine pan bolts 'secured' with two strands of #22 copper magnet wire. The wire plus vintage crud kept those tight. Not a recommendation. I see Lang's has small quantities of 0.040" safety wire in their catalog.
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Re: What safety wire?
Am I wrong in thinking that safety wiring is done to stop bolts/nuts from backing off? I cannot see how it can reliably maintain tension on the nut/bolt to stop it loosing tension. As long as the wire stays in place, it is doing its job.
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Re: What safety wire?
Safety wire, if done right will maintain tension on bolts and prevent them from loosening. See: www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/48566.html. Jim Patrick
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Re: What safety wire?
Thanks Jim. I can see how that will work, but I'd like to see evidence that that is how it was done on the production line. My gut feeling is that the safety wiring done on T's was just done to achieve the same result as split pins on castle nuts, to stop the nut backing off. We have the time to do it better when restoring, but it may be a case of over thinking it. This is totally understandable in the aviation industry where absolute safety is the pursuit. But, what might be the consequences of the two spring loaded nuts on the front wishbone backing off part of 1/6th of a turn?
Allan from down under.
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Allan from down under.
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