Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
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Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
I promised Mark Chaffin I'd post in the gallery and post them here too. He's all about sharing of information so if this helps any of you I'm putting them here too.
Currently I'm looking for any pictures I can find of the axles themselves. I had them once upon a time, but they were lost when I lost my drive a few years back...I now got to go back and redraw everything I've lost (including these, because these are Jpg's and I need vectors to file). So if any of you have any pictures of the Ruckstell components out on your bench or garage floor (doesn't matter if they're gooey or not), I'd appreciate you posting them here so I can regain what I've lost.
I had made this one with a color cross section in the corner, mainly because I had room. I also did it for the 26-27 assembly but as of yet I cant find it.
The 26-27 shifter (what I call the Shifting Tower) is a bit beerier than the earlier model, although George Clipner has the early shifter on his 1926 and it seems to work fine. Why the 26-27 needs one like this I've no idea, maybe Dave Little or Mark Chaffin can explain that, me I'm just the guy drawing them.
Currently I'm looking for any pictures I can find of the axles themselves. I had them once upon a time, but they were lost when I lost my drive a few years back...I now got to go back and redraw everything I've lost (including these, because these are Jpg's and I need vectors to file). So if any of you have any pictures of the Ruckstell components out on your bench or garage floor (doesn't matter if they're gooey or not), I'd appreciate you posting them here so I can regain what I've lost.
I had made this one with a color cross section in the corner, mainly because I had room. I also did it for the 26-27 assembly but as of yet I cant find it.
The 26-27 shifter (what I call the Shifting Tower) is a bit beerier than the earlier model, although George Clipner has the early shifter on his 1926 and it seems to work fine. Why the 26-27 needs one like this I've no idea, maybe Dave Little or Mark Chaffin can explain that, me I'm just the guy drawing them.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Thank you.
Norm
Norm
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Couple observations. I don't think the pins extend thru the shifting fork in the early shifter. Also there is no inner Hyatt bearing on the Ruckstell side of the axle housing for either the early or late model.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Also noticed there should be a fiber washer illustrated inside the bell housing on the Ford side between the inner surface of the housing and the triple gear carrier. I believe Chaffin calls for a metal washer in that area but Ruckstell used a fiber washer.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
He should learn the spelling of Ruckstell. Also, this doesn't show the first design made of brass.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Richard, myself I don't know either, I ran these past David Little and he didn't see any problems at all with them although what you're saying makes sense. As for the washer between the axle shafts, probably Ruckstell used whatever was inside the Ford axle a much as he could and that would be of course the fiber disc. Whether or not it is metal or fiber doesn't matter in this case, the drawing shows the place where it is supposed to be, what it's made of immaterial. Now when I do the exploded view of (again) it is called out there what it is and it's part number.
Larry, you're right on the drawings (which are more than 3 years old), the name Ruckstell is spelt incorrectly, but you'll notice that the title of this post it is spelled correctly. At that time I didn't know how the bloody word was spelt, George Clipner corrected me, but unfortunately everything I had on the Ruckstell's (along with your Rockey's pictures and drawings) was lost in the Creek Fire before I could make any changes...the Jpg's were saved on a different drive which survived. At that time I used to save finished Jpg's on a different source drive so if something happened to the originals I'd have the jpg's as back up...wish I'd also saved the originals on that drive too...things would've been a hell of a lot easier...so now I'm left with having to redraw these and the axles (just like I am redrawing your Rockey's Larry) and just about every early drawing I made up to that time too. What I need more than anything is tooth count and pitch on the gears on the Ruckstell side of things, I know the Ford side, but I don't know the Ruckstell side...just a flat gear face so I can count them and see the pitch would be great, otherwise I could draw it from what I see in the cross sections, just wouldn't be detailed enough for an accurate tooth count.
As for the "early brass" one, sorry I don't know of such a one. The stuff I was shown when I went to Glen's place was the parts for both the 13-25 and the 26-27...which mostly referenced the shifters as I recall, the axles parts were the same for both. I could be wrong, it's been a long set of whiles since I took picture of those parts (like I did with yours Larry). Do you have pictures of the "Brass one"? If so I'd love to see them Larry.
Larry, you're right on the drawings (which are more than 3 years old), the name Ruckstell is spelt incorrectly, but you'll notice that the title of this post it is spelled correctly. At that time I didn't know how the bloody word was spelt, George Clipner corrected me, but unfortunately everything I had on the Ruckstell's (along with your Rockey's pictures and drawings) was lost in the Creek Fire before I could make any changes...the Jpg's were saved on a different drive which survived. At that time I used to save finished Jpg's on a different source drive so if something happened to the originals I'd have the jpg's as back up...wish I'd also saved the originals on that drive too...things would've been a hell of a lot easier...so now I'm left with having to redraw these and the axles (just like I am redrawing your Rockey's Larry) and just about every early drawing I made up to that time too. What I need more than anything is tooth count and pitch on the gears on the Ruckstell side of things, I know the Ford side, but I don't know the Ruckstell side...just a flat gear face so I can count them and see the pitch would be great, otherwise I could draw it from what I see in the cross sections, just wouldn't be detailed enough for an accurate tooth count.
As for the "early brass" one, sorry I don't know of such a one. The stuff I was shown when I went to Glen's place was the parts for both the 13-25 and the 26-27...which mostly referenced the shifters as I recall, the axles parts were the same for both. I could be wrong, it's been a long set of whiles since I took picture of those parts (like I did with yours Larry). Do you have pictures of the "Brass one"? If so I'd love to see them Larry.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
As for that inner bearing Richard? Hmmm, that's a good point, I'll ask both Mark and David about that when I get these redrawn. But you'd think there would be what with all the axial stress from the shifter near that point. I know there is no bronze or babbatt thrust washer there like on the Ford side, but I assumed that the inner Hyatt bearing would have to be there to support the axle.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
That's what the large radial ball bearing does Martin and the fiber washer Larry is referring to goes inside the large bell housing.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Martynn, the job you do with these is amazing and I congratulate you.
I don't mean to appear to pile on, but the 1926 - '27 shifter on the section view of the assembly is in a neutral point. The spring-loaded plunger P117B would be on the right side of the toggle.
I don't mean to appear to pile on, but the 1926 - '27 shifter on the section view of the assembly is in a neutral point. The spring-loaded plunger P117B would be on the right side of the toggle.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Dan ok, I'll look into that...in the mean though, took most of today to get this one done...hope it is correct.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Steve, you're talking about the smaller lavender housing not the large blue outer housing right? Isn't that what the pink flange ring is between the lavender and purple parts? I don't know what it is made of, but it is some sort of flanged thrust washer...I think. I've never owned one of these thing, so I really don't know what's inside one, I just went by the pictures I had back when I drew these...do you have a picture of what that particular part looks like?
Any pictures of the innards of one of these would be a great help, especially so if you have any gear pic's...so I could count the number and size of the teeth.
Any pictures of the innards of one of these would be a great help, especially so if you have any gear pic's...so I could count the number and size of the teeth.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
I have a complete clean unit that I can take apart tomorrow & supply you good photos of. I'm colorblind (thus preventing my earning a private pilot's license near 50 years ago) so I'll get my wife to look at the above enlargement - the fiber washer (not flanged) Larry referred to is a "cushion" spacer which current practice is to utilize a Ford steel washer #2529 & longer pins in the Ruckstell # P-159.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Martynn, since you have to take apart your rear axle at some point to fix the mismatched parts issue, why don't you buy one of Chaffin's kits and convert your axle to a Ruckstell? Then you'd see for yourself what all the parts look like and how they go together.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
I'd like someone to start making the correct fiber Ruckstell washer. I've had to custom make mine. I'll see if I can find an early brass Ruckstell shifter to take a picture of. I probably have one somewhere!
As far as the Rocky Mountain brakes go, I had the pleasure of buying a NOS set last year. The find of the century!
As far as the Rocky Mountain brakes go, I had the pleasure of buying a NOS set last year. The find of the century!
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Martynn besides the.extra Hyatt bearing on the left side and no flange on the washer between the bell housing and the differential housing there is something wrong with the brass plate between the roller bearing and the open end of the bell housing. There is a large iron disc between the open end of the bell housing and the brass plate. It has the Ruckstell triple gear running on the inside. The ten long bolts hold the brass (bronze?) plate, the large iron disc and the bell housing to the differential ring gear. These two items are shown quite well in Marks picture of the parts.
So the item shown in purple should be two separate pieces.
The washer you show as flanged was originally fiber and I have never seen one. Glen decided to use the Ford steel thrust washers and it seems to work just fine. However it is flat.
So the item shown in purple should be two separate pieces.
The washer you show as flanged was originally fiber and I have never seen one. Glen decided to use the Ford steel thrust washers and it seems to work just fine. However it is flat.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Gear locking thrust plate(p145) is held in place with 3 pins Green part. Pin shown above axles. Bolt shown below axles. (no bolt there)
Between this lock plate & bronze plate is a blue thing. Spacer? does not belong. Lock plate rides directly against bronze plate.
My logic on that steel thrust washer vs fiber: Why would Ruckstell provide a fiber washer if steel was acceptable? Making a special part. When converting to rux there are already 2 extras. Rux's dont seem to lube well internally. have seen a lot of wear on the rux "castle" bottom to "bell" when that fiber washer was gone. Iron on iron. Will still wear iron on steel without the fiber. Have torn down units with steel washers, see wear most of the time.
For those reasons I NEVER use a steel washer there.
I make washers from .090 phenolic sheet. & thin shim if needed between washer & bell, like for setting non rux diff. clearences.
Between this lock plate & bronze plate is a blue thing. Spacer? does not belong. Lock plate rides directly against bronze plate.
My logic on that steel thrust washer vs fiber: Why would Ruckstell provide a fiber washer if steel was acceptable? Making a special part. When converting to rux there are already 2 extras. Rux's dont seem to lube well internally. have seen a lot of wear on the rux "castle" bottom to "bell" when that fiber washer was gone. Iron on iron. Will still wear iron on steel without the fiber. Have torn down units with steel washers, see wear most of the time.
For those reasons I NEVER use a steel washer there.
I make washers from .090 phenolic sheet. & thin shim if needed between washer & bell, like for setting non rux diff. clearences.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Maybe these will be of some help?
Mark Strange
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Steve, don't envy you for being color blind, my father was also (which lead to some really weird discussions on what color to paint things), the only color he could see was yellow. So, everything he owned was of course Yellow usually with White as an accent color. Yeah I guess my cross sections would be hard to see then...it's just I hate cross hatch, although I guess I should make them that way too for folks with your particular problem.
Anyhoo, I would like to see your cleaned unit, Mark's is a good layout, but it would be nice if you could lay them out as they came apart, or just good straight on pics of the parts....on the cylindrical parts with gear teeth, both a right side and a top pic would be good, thanks.
Mark, I would love to be able to buy one of Mark Chaffin's kits, but as of now I just can't afford it (I live in Califunny and between that bloody gas tax and what it costs to own a house here, my retirement is just barely, making ends meet. I'm moving this summer sometime out of Califunny, at least that's the plan, lol, to Missouri (pronounced Missour-ah by the locals), hopefully it will be a bit less expensive and maybe then I can get one then). Hmmm some of the parts I've got in my cross section don't seem to be in your parts lay out...or if they are, they're totally different from what I was originally shown. What's that whitish looking disc above the cylindrical sleeve with the two gear ends on it? And where does it go?
Tony, Looks like I'm going to be doing some major rework here, blast, why didn't Dave Little tell me this long ago, when I could've made these corrections back then...oh well, better late than never, besides I intend to redraw these anyway, now I can redraw them and correctly, thanks.
John so you're saying that there is no bolt that holds this ring to the housing only pins? Ok so the smaller bolts hold the two halves of the pinion spider housing together? Those pins hold the 3 small gears that run inside the Ruckstell Ring gear and the inner (I think) Hi speed gear. Sooo, in that picture that Mark posted of the assembly as it goes together, that washer between the differential and the Ruckstell "Bell Housing" is the fiber washer you're talking about? That's the pink flange thing I've got, so, I'll just remove the bottom part of that and make the O.D a bit larger with the same I.D....ok, this is going to be fun! It's good to have folks like you guys to tell me what is and what is not correct.
Anyhoo, I would like to see your cleaned unit, Mark's is a good layout, but it would be nice if you could lay them out as they came apart, or just good straight on pics of the parts....on the cylindrical parts with gear teeth, both a right side and a top pic would be good, thanks.
Mark, I would love to be able to buy one of Mark Chaffin's kits, but as of now I just can't afford it (I live in Califunny and between that bloody gas tax and what it costs to own a house here, my retirement is just barely, making ends meet. I'm moving this summer sometime out of Califunny, at least that's the plan, lol, to Missouri (pronounced Missour-ah by the locals), hopefully it will be a bit less expensive and maybe then I can get one then). Hmmm some of the parts I've got in my cross section don't seem to be in your parts lay out...or if they are, they're totally different from what I was originally shown. What's that whitish looking disc above the cylindrical sleeve with the two gear ends on it? And where does it go?
Tony, Looks like I'm going to be doing some major rework here, blast, why didn't Dave Little tell me this long ago, when I could've made these corrections back then...oh well, better late than never, besides I intend to redraw these anyway, now I can redraw them and correctly, thanks.
John so you're saying that there is no bolt that holds this ring to the housing only pins? Ok so the smaller bolts hold the two halves of the pinion spider housing together? Those pins hold the 3 small gears that run inside the Ruckstell Ring gear and the inner (I think) Hi speed gear. Sooo, in that picture that Mark posted of the assembly as it goes together, that washer between the differential and the Ruckstell "Bell Housing" is the fiber washer you're talking about? That's the pink flange thing I've got, so, I'll just remove the bottom part of that and make the O.D a bit larger with the same I.D....ok, this is going to be fun! It's good to have folks like you guys to tell me what is and what is not correct.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
John so you're saying that there is no bolt that holds this ring to the housing only pins? Ok so the smaller bolts hold the two halves of the pinion spider housing together? Those pins hold the 3 small gears that run inside the Ruckstell Ring gear and the inner (I think) Hi speed gear. Sooo, in that picture that Mark posted of the assembly as it goes together, that washer between the differential and the Ruckstell "Bell Housing" is the fiber washer you're talking about? That's the pink flange thing I've got, so, I'll just remove the bottom part of that and make the O.D a bit larger with the same I.D....ok, this is going to be fun! It's good to have folks like you guys to tell me what is and what is not correct.
Fun never quits!
Yes. Yes there are 6 bolts with castle nuts containing the spider gears & axle. Yes on the 3 pins. Yes on the fiber washer location.
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Yes. Yes there are 6 bolts with castle nuts containing the spider gears & axle. Yes on the 3 pins. Yes on the fiber washer location.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
That whitish ring just above the P146 sliding gear is a Babbitt thrust washer that was in the unit when I took it apart. The unit I bought was a collection of mostly used parts that had been loosely assembled by the previous owner to keep from losing anything. I ended up taking it all apart and replacing most of the parts.
If you don't already have one, get a copy of the MTFCA Ruckstell booklet. It's too bad that Stan Howe took down his Ruckstell website, it had some great photos in it.
If you don't already have one, get a copy of the MTFCA Ruckstell booklet. It's too bad that Stan Howe took down his Ruckstell website, it had some great photos in it.
Mark Strange
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Art, in the enlarged photo above, you illustrate a flanged bushing between the inner surface of the large bell housing and the triple gear/differential carrier. Number 2. Ruckstell used a flat fibre washer. What you show was used in Perfectos, the forerunner of Ruckstells, as was the inner Hyatt roller bearing on the driver's side. Neither of these were used in Ruckstells.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Here are some pictures that I saved from elsewhere on the forum and maybe other sites on the web over the years.
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- assembled_innards01.jpg (43.27 KiB) Viewed 2946 times
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- assembled_innards05.jpg (51.6 KiB) Viewed 2946 times
Mark Strange
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
More pics from various web sources:
Mark Strange
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Mark, those are great! Now we're getting somewhere, oh, goody this is going to be fun! One more question, the Ruckstell housing is on the drivers side of the car right? Do you have any pictures of the interior of that housing looking from the differential side (without the differential or anything in it)? As you probably already know, I strive to make my drawings as accurate as I can, so if there is some sort of web, nook or cranny inside that housing I need to know where it is and if it will show in my projection.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
How are these? The last pic shows a case with the P146 sliding clutch gear and P147 gear clutch plate set in place.
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Mark, those two notches in that plate on the last one are for position locking screws from the outside right? Is this housing on the drivers side or the passengers side? I'm thinking it is on the drivers side, but I'm not certain.
Also do you have a view of this housing with the driveshaft hole up, so I can see the elevation angle of the shifters mounting pad?
Also do you have a view of this housing with the driveshaft hole up, so I can see the elevation angle of the shifters mounting pad?
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Here is the straight on view you requested. Yes, the Ruckstell housing on on the driver side of the car and those two notches are for the locking bolts. The locking bolts have tapered tips that fit into the notches in the plate. The bolts have locknuts that lock them to the case once the bolts have been tightened into the notches in the plate.
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Topic author - Posts: 542
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Mark, guess I didn't explain it very well, what I wanted to see was the angle of that mounting pad on the housing. It has to be seen from the side, whilst the housing is in the position you're showing.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Sigh - what was it they used to say at work, "no good deed goes unpunished". Okay, I went back downstairs, pulled the housing out AGAIN, and took this picture:
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Topic author - Posts: 542
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Mark, thank you, that's exactly what I needed! By the way, what is that step on the side for? Was it for a drain plug that never got drilled and tapped? Not that'll will probably show, just wondered what it was for.
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Hmmm, I never noticed it before. I looked at the unit currently on my car and it has the same thing. I does point straight down, so I suppose it could be drilled and tapped for a drain plug.
Has anyone put a drain plug there in their Ruckstell?
Has anyone put a drain plug there in their Ruckstell?
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Topic author - Posts: 542
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:44 am
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
Mark, one pointing down wont show in my projection, is there another one on the other side pointing up? Usually where there is one their is also another on the opposite side as well....for RHD maybe?
Fun never quits!
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Re: Ruckstell Rear Axle Shifters and Cross Sections.
The top side is plain, no raised boss.
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)