MTFCA Forum

I posted a page showing the 10,000,000 Model T. The posting showed the 1924 touring with what appears to be white tyres.

Researching newspapers of the period ( up to 1925) it would seem that white tyres were available through the United States from many dealers.

My question to the group, any one using white tyres on their post Brass cars? Post 1918 to 1927 era cars.

I believe the tire in this 1925 assembly line photo is white or light gray.

There's a fellow that lives about a mile south of me here in the Twin Cities that has a 1924 Ford touring with white tires.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:11 am

Engine Factory Shot.jpg
I believe the tire in this 1925 assembly line photo is white or light gray.

That engine photo is earlier than ‘25, more like ‘23 or earlier, early style manifold clamps and round hole valve cover. Ford did try to use low cost tires and branch assembly plants may have delayed tire types, but most of the cheaper later cord tires Ford used were carbon filled to some extent in the twenties.

Earlier more gum only were very likely off white or white in hue.

The Judging Guidelines have the tires line 580 as 1908 to 1918, Natural rubber color (off-white).
1919 to 1927, Tires were black rubber.
Either way, your car white or black, your choice.

Been Here Before wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:32 am

Researching newspapers of the period ( up to 1925) it would seem that white tyres were available through the United States from many dealers.

So if this adv. from this tire dealer is from 1925?, then these all- white tires were discontinued, if adv. is earlier, then perhaps all-white obsoleted way before 1925.

Kamm Brothers Company, Kenosha Evening News, Wisconsin. 1921

Ralph Hill, Sumter Daily Item, South Carolina, 1922

West Side Tire Shop, The Post Crescent (Appleton), Wisconsin, 1924.

All the tire ads were for after market replacement tires. As is today, there are many brands and tread patterns. Also now there are white sidewall tires available. So as far as I know, after the source of zinc was cut off in the first world war, the white tires for cars was discontinued. They actually found out that the black tires were longer wearing, so they were continued. People then who wanted white tires got white sidewalls but the treads were black. Anyway, unless you are looking at pictures of the cars as sold by dealers, you could see other types tires on cars, just as it is today.
Norm

George

Thanks for posting those newspaper adv.dates. The dating does seem to confirm that 'all-white tires' were gone in 1921. As the date of that 'discontinued sale' adv. was 1921.

The other adv. showing 'white arrow tires' is just a trade mark for Hood Tire Co.

As with the others posting, seems the Judging Standards are correct in most instances, that 'all white or off-white' tire casings were from 1909-1918.

And after that general date they were gone with the carbon additive to make the treads black or the whole casing black. Notwithstanding that some brands had red side walls, white side walls too, but generally black treads.

Clearly Ford desired to install bulk price contracted tires from a number of companies, and those supplied perhaps were off-white a while longer after 1921, as that factory assembly line shows perhaps a '23 Ford.

I'm not sure that the tires in the photo are black; it could be a reflection from the lighting for the photo. The cutout relay also appears to be white. I have never seen a white cutout relay on a Model T.

Notice engine looks like it was sprayed with stove black as an assembly. Frame & firewall+ appear semi gloss black. Fender iron & radiator gloss black.

John Codman wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:01 pm

I'm not sure that the tires in the photo are black; it could be a reflection from the lighting for the photo. The cutout relay also appears to be white. I have never seen a white cutout relay on a Model T.

Original cutouts I have seen are zinc plated, so it would appear light, white-like. What is white are the porcelains of the coil box , and the spark plugs. Tire appears more black to me in the lighting and camera lens setting used for the photograph.

Neither black nor white

And this illustrates what can be so interesting, and aggravating, about all this research.

Bad enough that people remember things, but they remember them wrong. Someone goes digging through very old written records and finds so many 'facts'! People think "So THAT is how it really was!" However, someone else digs through thousands of era photographs, including hundreds of original factory photographs? And they find lots of photographic evidence that the written records are wrong!

I made a comment on another forum thread earlier today, that may also be appropriate here.
"I know that in the grand scheme of the universe, these are minor things. But the details of reality are important. And historic automobiles should be restored with their nearly infinite variations intact for all to see. And, people need to understand that not everything in life fits into their nice neat 'tied-with-a-bow' vision."

If you look at either "From Here to Obscurity", or McCalley's later Model T book, you will see that Ford Factory Photos show cars with white tires up to 1925. They are TOO white to be gray. Gray would be a much duller tire, and these are definitely WHITE RUBBER.

Did anybody notice in Steve's picture the exhaust pipe running up the inside of the firewall?

No, I had not noticed the upright exhaust pipe. I suppose it's a temporary Exhaust for test running the engine and would attach to a hose hanging overhead.

I did notice what I took for a temporary Brace holding the firewall upright during assembly. But looking closer I realized it's actually two things: the fender brace and the reinforcement pressed into the firewall. We don't always see what we think we see.

In the 1910s-1920s certain photographic plates were not panchromatic; able to render certain hues giving false impressions in the final print. This is why things that are blue or black might photograph considerably lighter.

And no cotter pin in the mixture rod & the oil fill cap isn't seated into the cover !

Also, the firewall in Steve's picture is a low steel one, so probably a '23. Exhaust pipe is interesting. Dave