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Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:45 pm
by ModelT46
I found my first Model T Ford in parking garage that was a part of the Minneapolis Pure Oil headquarters. In early September of 1946 I was seeking an early automobile, preferable before 1912. There was an advertisement in the Minneapolis Star Journal for a "1909" Ford. I called and was told it was owned by the Pure Oil Company and was stored in their garage in downtown Minneapolis. My father drove me down and I looked at the T and made an offer of $125 for it. I was 14 years old at that time. The T turned out to be a 1910. Later on another owner of a 1910 told me they had offered $390 for the T. I believe thatthey accepted my offer because I told them I would keep the T and never sell. I must have done so, for I still own that Model T.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:02 pm
by John kuehn
My Grandfather gave me his 24 Coupe in 1958 or 9. I can’t remember which as I was 10-11 years old. I finally restored it about 15 years ago. My Father and Uncle drug it out to our farm and it was stored in a barn. Those early years was my 1st exposure to a Model T.
In a way the old Ford as my Father called it found me.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:48 pm
by jiminbartow
Tampa, Florida. When I was 16 in 1970, I had just gotten my driver’s license and was looking for a car in the classified ads of the Tampa Tribune when I saw an ad for a “Model T for sale” for $650.00. I called the man and got the address and went to the bank and withdrew my life savings of $600.00, just in case. As soon as Dad got home from work, I got him to drive me to Tampa to check it out. He was curious to see it too, for 1926 was the year he was born. When we got there, it was getting dark so, with a flashlight, I crawled all over it in the guys garage. The combination of smells that combine to give us that old car smell that we are all familiar with was intoxicating. By the time I was done looking it over, though it was in very poor condition, I was in love with the graceful curves of the 1926 coupe body and made the decision to buy it. I only had $600.00 in cash so Dad talked the old man down $50.00 from the original $650.00 he was asking. I paid him and that night, we borrowed a trailer from a friend to go back to Tampa the next morning, which was a Saturday, to haul it home. When we pulled up, there must have been a dozen people there to look at the T but it was mine. There was also a lot of extra parts that came with it. It was a life changing experience for it dominated my life for the next two years and caused me to have to ride the bus to and from school, for I did not get my first drivable car until 1974 when I bought a brand new 1974 Camaro after joining the Marines. Jim Patrick

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:50 pm
by Les Schubert
In 1974 in Brandon Manitoba while on vacation!

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:53 pm
by Norman Kling
The first one was a 26 roadster. A woman who worked in the same office with me saw it parked with a for sale sign. She knew that a number of years before, I had sever Model A's but sold them before moving to Alpine. They were daily drivers and the commute was about 25 miles each way with about half up hill. So I sold and got a newer car and a 59 Ford Pickup.
The second one was a basket case which I bought about 5 months after I retired and it was a retirement project. This was a 26 touring. About a week later the phone rang and I had another job which lasted for another 15 years, so it took longer to restore than I thought it would, only working in my spare time.
The third one was an older restoration which my wife saw at an estate sale. I bought it and the trailer that came with it. That one was a 22 Roadster.
Norm

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:07 pm
by Henry K. Lee
Dad's scrap pile....., Really!

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:37 pm
by Allan
There had always been a dilapidated 20's tourer driving around my hometown since I was a kid. It got more and more dilapidated, ending up with a late model rear axle and 21" wheels. Then a mate discovered, not one, but 7 various T's in a pole framed, thatch roofed, open shed way up north on the fringes of the outback. He bought two of them, trailered one half way home to a relative's home, and then returned to trailer the second one all the way back. We got the second one running later, and I was able to drive it part of the way back. By the time we got home, it had run a rod bearing or two and didn't have enough power to pull up the last hill.
That drive kindled something in me, and the hunt was on, resulting in a very run down, rusty 22 cut down tourer which had seen use as a crabbing vehicle at a local beach.
Of those 7 T's up north, two more came home to us, a 26 roadster minus turtledeck, and a 27 tourer converted into a metal sided utility, complete with metal C cab. We still have both. A third, a 20's TT, came back to another club member, parts being used in the restoration of his really nice TT

Allan from down under.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:47 pm
by Burger in Spokane
My story is convoluted. My friends and I discovered a truck just like the one
I have today in Mrs. Miller's implement barn. I would have been 8 years old and
the year was 1969. But other old junk interests and the general impracticality
of a T truck as a kid's daily kept me from actually pursuing one, opting instead
for 1950's stuff as my old car "expression". But the idea of Mrs. Miller's truck never
left me. My internal response was "some day".

That "some day" came after my team went down in a chopper crash in AFG. It
was not so dramatic as it sounds, but I came away thinking that it really could
end at any time, and I should quit putting meaningful things off for "some day".

When I did my final demobe in 2013, I came home and began looking/asking
around. I found my truck right here on this site. A member had bought it from
the original family, thinking he'd tour with it, but the 7:1 gears put the ka-bosh
on that plan, and he sold it to buy something more compatible with his touring
plans.

I had it shipped out west and began my Model T learning curve adventure. I am
ever so lucky to live near the Model T epicenter of the world, ... the Antique Auto
Ranch, and every Tuesday night is open shop night, where T nuts from all over gather
to work on their junk, shoot the breeze, help others on their projects, or teach
greenhorns like me all about the secret voodoo of the Model T.

While I have so much to learn about T's still, my old truck is no longer a black
hole of mystery, and I feel comfortable taking it anywhere. With the help of friends
at the Ranch, it now drives smooth as a T can drive and cruises all day long at 35.

Mission accomplished. 👍

fullsizeoutput_89f.jpeg

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:23 pm
by otrcman
In the driveway at my parent's house in Apple Valley, CA. I was home from college for Christmas break. Date was was December, 1961. It was on a trailer, being delivered by my Uncle George Teters, from Glendale, AZ.

I was aware that my Dad had purchased a Model T through one of Uncle George's friends in Arizona about 6 months prior. And then Uncle George delivered car and trailer at his next opportunity.

Dad checked me out as a Model T driver the next day. I was 19 years old. I never drove the car again until after Dad passed away in 1983 and the car became mine.

Marty Fischer driving his new toy, probably January 1962:

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:05 pm
by varmint
Where? About 5 blocks away from my rented garage and the Ford Model T assembly plant, where is was probably made.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:29 am
by Hap_Tucker
Where did I discovered my T? In Dad's garage. It and several others were there before I was born. And after I was born, I wasn't allowed to play in the garage for the first few years. Something about too dangerous....or too hard to clean the kid when he got all that grease on him. I don't ever remember a time before T's. They were part of my first memories that I can recall. I know I loved going for a ride in Blackie our l9l5 cut off. Probably initially more for the ice cream that came after the ride. And later as I got to drive & start the car it was just lots of fun. And there were hours spent pretending to drive Blackie while it was not running and was just parked in the garage. Or flying Blackie (it was the best airplane I had as a kid....). Below is a photo from Dad's garage around 1978 I had already been in the military for a few years when that was taken. You only see the hood and radiator of Blackie and in the back ground is Ghost. But when I was younger, Blackie was facing the other direction and was easy to get out of the garage. It was the primary T that Dad took us for rides and later taught me how to drive.
Dad's garage Jan 1978 Centerdoor.JPG


An earlier photo of Blackie in front of that same garage.
Hap May 1956-working.jpg
And Blackie is still on the "To do list" for getting it back on the road.

Lots of good memories of Dad, Mom and Blackie.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:50 am
by TWrenn
My first T was kind of a fluke...there's TWO Hamilton Ohio's, unbeknownst to me. As well as the lady from Michigan, who went clear down to SW Ohio Hamilton to buy this beautiful '20 runabout. When she learned then she was in the wrong town, she gave up. Hence, that's how I got the car. I always felt "it was meant to be". And our lives are in control by a higher power.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:34 am
by Rich Bingham
Mine found me on this forum ! :lol:

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:36 am
by Colin Mavins
Dad was one of the founding members of the Manitoba classic and antique auto club. His car was the 1947 Chrysler Town & country, his dream car. He bought it in 1958. The club was started in 1960 and his car was only 13 years old. He was always told he should get an older car so he said if you find me a brass era car he would buy it. shortly after that the 1912 T was driven home June of 1960. My first T would have been 1961 in Dads garage as I was born 1 year later and the 12 has been there all of my life, I started driving her at 14 and when Dad pasted in 2016 I could not let it go. Shortly after that Mom Give me the car, the rest is history.
aug 1963  Jack Mavins.png
A very happy dad In 1963 she's almost finished.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:38 pm
by Steve Jelf
I came way too late to the game. I bought a 1926 chassis about 30 years ago as a RP project. I believe it was from a Hemmings ad. Don't remember what it cost. No photo, as it's still scattered around in the barn as a project.

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In 2007 I got serious and dragged home this 1924 TT project from Arkinsaw. Saw it in a VF ad. Paid way too much, because what did I know?

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In 2008 I brought this 1923 touring home from Lincoln NE. Another VF ad. Again, I paid way too much. It was my first intact, running and driving T. The body was reasonably well done, but the mechanicals were shot. It taught me about rear axle thrust washers.

IMG_5320_4 copy.JPG
In 2011 I got my first (and probably only) brass T, this 1915 runabout from Emporia, also from a Hemmings ad. This time I think the price was reasonable, though it did need an engine rebuild.

IMG_2848 copy.JPG
My first closed car, this 1923 Fordor I brought home from Phoenix in 2012, was probably my final Model T. I'm out of space and have more projects than I'll probably ever finish. This was from another HMN ad, and I consider what I paid for it reasonable, though it does need to be resurrected with engine work.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:11 pm
by walber
Indianapolis, Indiana in 1984. I had been chatting with my boss about getting an old car and she happened to overhear in the Post Office when a fellow was saying he'd inherited some cars he wanted to sell. She passed his number on to me. Well he had 6 cars and only wanted to keep one. A '50 Chrysler was sold, a 30'sh Buick roadster and three T's remained. I knew nothing but the 25 touring car appealed to me. The seller didn't know anything about T's but the Indy swap meet was the next weekend so I went there and found a member of the Indy T club and asked if he could check the car out for me. He agreed and when we saw the cars he explained how to operate the levers and pedals and said the car was a real decent deal and that he'd buy it if I didn't. I had a flatbed deliver the car and I proceeded to scope it out. Fortunately it was in decent shape and running condition. There was a Ford Owners Guide in the tool box and between that and a new battery I learned to start and drive the car. I never heard anything from the T guy after that, had no clue about the club and just played with the car on my own. In '86 I retired from the military and moved back to the Seattle area. There was a wrecking yard at that time that had only old cars and parts and I went the one day and chatted with the guy at the counter, he gave me the name of one of the long time Puget Sound Chapter club members (Randy Murray) and suggested I call. I joined the club and found a great group of friendly and helpful folks. My wife and I enjoyed the heck out of that car and put a lot of miles on it at local, regional and several national tours. Then I got a speedster bug and the touring was used less and less. It now lives at a museum where it is used for giving driving lessons.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:36 pm
by Duckwing
1926 Roadster pickup - Rusk, TX - 1955 - $35. Dad took me to get it. The owner wasn’t there. His wife told us he wasn’t sure he was going to sell. She wanted it out of her yard and told us to load it up. He later mailed the paperwork.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:21 am
by Jim Eubanks
I found my first T in 59 near my uncle's house in Macon GA. My dad and I made a deal with the owner and we drove down from Knoxville TN in the 48 F6 with a load of manure for my uncle's garden, bought the 21 T touring, drove it to a service sta. put it on the lift and backed the truck up to the lift to load it. I learned to drive it herding cows in the pasture. It set for many years while I was traveling the world for Uncle Sam and I finally got around to starting a restoration in the 1990's.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:21 am
by George House
I was driving the backroads from San Marcos TX to New Braunfels TX when I saw 2 elderly ladies sitting outside a very dilapidated garage/machine shop with a large ‘For Sale’ sign. I stopped and entered the shop to see Round felloe wheels being used as pulleys for overhead line shafts. As my eyes became accustomed to the low light, I spied 2 Model T engines - one in a cradle with PTO running the line shaft and the other SET IN CONCRETE. Then I saw it ....a really nice 1914 runabout w/o engine/tranny. As I was about 20 years old and without money, I immediately dashed to the National Bank of Daddy. I guess we scored about 5 pickup loads including the T for about $500. Turns out the engine set in concrete was for the ‘14. And this is what she looks like today ! The

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:07 pm
by Original Smith
Hemmings, in 1960. Still have the car too, with over 55,000 miles on the original engine.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:34 pm
by RustyFords
2016. I saw John Mays parked at a local gas station in his cut-off Touring.

I was looking at his car and mentioned that I'd always wanted a barn-fresh black-era Touring and he said he had one at home that he'd sell me. He did just that and let me have it for exactly what he had in it.

Three and a half years later, I'm driving the hell out of it....every chance I get.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:06 am
by kelly mt
A guy at work told me about this old truck that had been sitting in a barn for years. It was only about 8 miles from the house.
27 Ford April 2011 002.jpg
27 Ford April 2011 001.jpg

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:00 pm
by Virtus
I had been umming and aahing about getting a Model T. Having retired I went to a local meet of steam and petrol engine vehicles in October 2019and met a work acquaintance who had just purchased a French Ford TT. I was hooked! I had noticed a TT for sale with Tuckett Bros. Within 3 days I had bought a 1921 TT.
Covid has given me the time to make a new body, paint it, learn to drive again and gradually go through the mechanics. Still enjoying the journey!

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:10 pm
by Michael Peternell
Not a proper T but my first. Was advertised as a model T Ford tractor yard art on the auction poster. Pierz MN, about thirty miles away.
The wife and I went. When I saw it I told the my wife it was going to be ours come hell or high water!
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The best part! After I paid for my new treasure I tracked down the owner to ask where it came from. He explained to me that him and his wife were at the Pioneer days at Albany. She complained he never got her anything at the swap meet. A gentleman by the name of Wahoo had it for sale. I've met Wahoo! He bought it for his wife to put in her rock garden. It still had the rain guage screwed on top of the hood when I got it.
I smiled so hard it almost left scars on my face! I told him it was going back to the Pioneer grounds he got it at. Also explained my folks were the founder's of the show. I think he smiled as much as I did!

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:52 am
by Alan Long
Like many others, my 1926 T was given to me by my Grandmother who purchased it brand new. In those days, the Salesman
drove the new car to the Buyers Home and taught them to drive it. We even have the guys name! It was given to me
in 1964 when I was 11 and the gift was prompted by the vehicle given a unroadworthy work order...
I’m now 68 and the T is like new! Only regret.... not retaining the original (cracked ) windscreen with registration and work order sticker on it.
Alan in Western Australia

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:23 pm
by katy
In 1956, in a junk dealers yard in Brooklands, Manitoba, a 1927 coupe.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:02 pm
by Dennis_Brown
On Mothers day 1962 I bought a Stuck 26 buzz saw motor, frame and both axles, all separated and laying in the snow from a friend for $9. I slowly started accumulating a few parts and a coupe body. Got the motor apart and back together with the same parts and got it running. My brother in law told me that there was a roadster body out in his dad's pasture. We went out there and it was a 26 roadster bucket, frame, springs,fenders and steering column. We hauled it to my dads place and my axles were put under it. the motor in the coupe was put in it.
It started in South dakota, was moved to Oregon and then I moved it to florida.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:11 pm
by John Heaman
In a ditch.

6F703100-2F1A-472D-B880-AE891B40C5C2.jpeg

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:43 am
by ironhorse
In my neighbors garage! I met Carl when I first moved in he told me he had some old cars if I was interested. When I went over I was thinking 40's or 50's but when I got into his garage it was teen;s through 40's. I fell in love with the Ts but they were his babies and he would not part with them, he did sell me 2 other cars (a '65 corvair convertible and a '46 Plymouth P15) but never a T Then when he got sick I was over helping him put stuff where his Children could find everything and at the end of the day he asked me if I was still interested in a T, my wallet was trying to jump out of my pocket before he changed his mind..... he showed me 3 T's gave a price and told me I could have any 1 for that price! I said let me go and get my wife so I get the right one
modt.jpg
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this is it.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:20 pm
by Petrah Phyre
It was a gift from my wife. 1926 Speedster. She took it as part of her inheritance from her fathers estate. Needs much work after sitting tarped for 20+ years. I do remember when he brought it home. He took it on a few tours. Had to sell the 1925 Coupe because no one in the family wanted it. I left our wedding in the coupe 32 years ago this June.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:35 pm
by ModelT46
The chasis on the speedster is long - has been extended. How?

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:28 pm
by greenacres36
Just found what appears to be a mostly original April 1915 roadster. Has been setting in the same spot in a warehouse for over 30 year. Cleaned the timer. Rebuilt the coils and what do you know she runs. Original bore with cast iron pistons and completely silent triple gears. I’m so excited.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:42 am
by Jem
Hershey 1979.jpg
Hershey 1979. A kind gentleman (who had served in the USAF in the UK), on hearing our English accents, invited us out of the rain into his RV. As the rain stopped, his friend arrived and said to the son of the family 'Larry, get that car uncovered, it won't sell under a tarp'. This is what I saw through the RV window.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:25 am
by tiredfarmer
I met Lizabet, my 1926 touring at Chickasha eleven years ago. My son, David, and I heard about the prewar swap meet and decided to go to see what it's all about. When we entered we seen this Model T on a trailer, but no one was around so we wandered around looking at the cars and parts. When we was leaving I said, "Lets go and look at that car on the trailer." the owner was there and he wanted me to buy it. I told him I had to find the money and also to get my pickup fixed. All summer long I thought about that Model T and that November I bought my Lizzy. Now we are happy together and she has been a great car.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:36 am
by jab35
Outside behind a corncrib on a central Wisconsin farm in 1967 where it was parked in 1943, with keys left in the switch.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:39 pm
by Rich Eagle
I was in high school 57 years ago when a good friend told me about a 1925 T Roadster at his Grandfather's neighbor's. It was complete but all rusty. The motor was out and the windshield had been removed but was there. It had the original plate glass. The cost was $75 in 1964 and mom was horrified at first. She later became a fan. I traded the body for a touring body and "restored" it within a year or so as best as I could.
A year or two later I bought the other T that had been in that same place and built my Speedster out of it.
From then on I have built a half dozen Ts out of parts we collected over the years.
Best hobby I ever had.
Rich

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:37 pm
by Chris Haynes
My T was listed in the Facebook classifieds.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:34 pm
by Oldav8tor
Such wonderful stories, great histories....wish I had something similar. Ten years ago I bought a military jeep and joined a MV club. Each year we get invited to Greenfield Village (Henry Ford Museum) for Motor Muster - like the Old Car Festival but for newer cars. While there with my Jeep I noticed that my wife spent all her time riding around the grounds in Model T's. She'd finish a ride and get back in line. Hmmm....she'd never shown much interest in old vehicles.

For our 46th wedding anniversary I arranged a ride in a 1925 Roadster with a friend who has at least a dozen T's and at least that many earlier or unusual cars. Some could be gotten running with a little work, others are major projects. He's not likely to ever do it so someday there will be an incredible auction.... He has a 1911 Touring sitting in a corner of a barn, filled with junk, so I tried to talk him into selling it to me. He politely turned me down so I decided to keep looking. I ended up focusing on a 1917 Touring because that was the first car my family ever owned.

I found one way up in northern Michigan and before going to look at it posted on this forum to see if anyone knew the car....that was 2018. No one did but I got an email from a fellow who lives an hour or so south of me who had just purchased a '17 to save it from being rat-rodded and suggested I might want to take a look at it. To my uneducated eyes the car looked pretty good and the seller, Brian Dowell, was very forthcoming about it's condition. It had been sitting for a few decades but the previous owners had at least protected it. What came from this meeting?
1.) I bought the car and Brian delivered it to me, helped me pull the engine and along the way has become a very good friend.
2.) I went thru everything mechanical, had the engine and tranny rebuilt and spent a full year getting it ready for the road.
3.) I got it running the first time on August 3, 2019 and taught myself to drive it the same day. Three days later I had trailered it to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to take part in the Michigan Jamboree. It wasn't running perfectly and I soon found one of the easiest ways to meet people was to open the hood.
4.) Since then I've put nearly 4000 miles on the car, made a host of great friends, had some wonderful touring experiences and kicked myself in the butt for not joining this hobby earlier. My wife enjoys touring and loves our Model T. I'm 71 now and hope to be able to continue enjoying this hobby as I enter my geezerhood.
My father, uncle and grandparents in 1917
My father, uncle and grandparents in 1917
Covered Bridge Tour 2019 - my wife is the one in the back with the big grin! Apparently getting wet in a Model T was fun to her....not so much to me. We've got a top now.
Covered Bridge Tour 2019 - my wife is the one in the back with the big grin! Apparently getting wet in a Model T was fun to her....not so much to me. We've got a top now.

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:04 am
by A Whiteman
My first T was a 'TradeMe' buy (the NZ local version of Ebay I guess) in 2007,
Probably paid too much given what work was needed, but to reflect Steve Jelf - 'what did I know then anyway?'
Why did I buy it? I love old machines, and trucks. A good friend has a TT and his good friend (who became my good friend too) had 2 Ts and said he could help get it going..
Seemed like valid reasons to me :-)
TradeMe 3.JPG
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I was warned that T's propagate in the garage. Not me, I am very happy with my TT ......... well, my second, and first 'ground up' T came in 2009 from a contact who told a contact:
Feb09 (3).JPG
Looking at that its hard to think it is road worthy and fun to drive after 11 years :-)

Re: Where did you discover your Model T?

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:20 am
by Petrah Phyre
ModelT46 wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:35 pm
The chasis on the speedster is long - has been extended. How?
The front axel was moved and lowered in front of the radiator. To keep the steering column in place the cowl and dash was moved forward as well. Haven't looked close enough to see how they lengthened the wishbone. Oh, and they hacked up the firewall to allow room for the head. Will need some adjustments during the rebuild.