Clutch Assembly

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FundyTides
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Clutch Assembly

Post by FundyTides » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:17 am

I had my transmission out about 15 years ago at which time I replaced all of the bushings, new bands and maybe clutch disks (can't remember). Anyway I took the cover off today to adjust bands and decided to just check things over. This is an improved T with the driving plate that fits inside the drum. The first thing I noticed was that the screws holding the plate into the drum were loose. Safety wires were still in place. Did I leave these screws loose for a reason? Anyway, I removed the safety wires and started tightening the screws. I soon noticed that I had no clutch release pressing down on the pedal. Not sure what's going on. I can try to adjust clutch release finger but looks like they will have a long way to go. Am I missing something obvious? Did I leave the 6 screws loose originally for a reason? Any suggestions will be appreciated even if it means removing the transmission (Hope not!)

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RajoRacer
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:30 am

There is no reason to leave the 6 driving plate bolts loose - early '26 used a flat blade screw head bolt - later it was changed to a conventional hex head bolt - if they are the "earlier" version, I'd replace them with the later style - (I have some available). After tightening up the plate, you'll need to readjust the clutch per the "Bible" !


speedytinc
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by speedytinc » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:34 am

Another good option is to use allen bolts. Drill 2 places for safety wire. Can get a better torque than with a screwdriver.


speedytinc
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by speedytinc » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:49 am

That is a real head scratcher.
Those bolt bosses are quite thin. Usually cracked. Its possible they cracked enough for those 6 bolts to no longer hold?


Norman Kling
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:58 am

That is a problem with the "improved" Model T. On my first Model T, even though the bolts were safety wired, one came out while driving and made a big Bang. I continued driving home and found that it had taken out some teeth of the starter ring gear. Since the magneto was not working anyway, I didn't stop running. I had a screen on the inspection plate cover and fortunately the flywheel threw the bolt up on that screen, so the only damage it did was to the starter ring. But it could be much worse, taking out the gears or the magneto. Anyway, I found the threaded holes in the reverse drum were cracked, causing the bolt to back out. So it is an important thing to check those threads when working on the transmission.
Norm

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RajoRacer
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:00 pm

It's the brake drum with the threaded holes for the driven plate Norm.

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FundyTides
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by FundyTides » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:06 pm

Thanks for the input guys. You never fail. The 6 screws on mine are the slotted head bolts. I notice in Langs catalog that they show a hex head bolt with a shoulder (3323B) for the 26-27 transmission. I assume that the shoulder is for easier access to the head. Is that correct?

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FundyTides
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by FundyTides » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:12 pm

Just noticed as well from the picture of the 3323B (clearer in Snyders catalog) that it is not threaded all the way to the shoulder. Maybe this is why I have a problem using screws that are threaded to the head?

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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:37 pm

That shoulder just "bottoms out" the bolt onto the driven plate - the hex head type tighten down waaay better than the screw driver head bolts !


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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by Dan Hatch » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:05 pm

Maybe the way you safety wired it. Dan


Norman Kling
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:19 pm

I stand corrected, Rajo. I knew what it was, but called it by the wrong name. Senior moment.
Norm

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RajoRacer
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by RajoRacer » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:12 pm

No worries Norm - I do it quite often !


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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by Allan » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:50 pm

The improved car brake drums do not have the same cracking at the bolt holes as the earlier drums. They have separate lugs for the bolt holes. The drive lugs for the clutch have removable shoes which can be replaced when worn. If these were fitted to the usual lugs in an earlier drum, there would be little left of the lug to be threaded.
The late hex head bolts are better in that they are easier to bring up to tension than the slotted screwdrivers types. As previously mentioned, the shoulder on these bolts is there for the bolt to clamp down on the driven plate when the bolt is tightened. The extended hex head just make access easier.

Allan from down under.

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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by John Warren » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:51 am

David, It sounds like something was not right when you built the transmission, may be one of the plates was not lined up and under the cover when it was tightened. The only thing to do now is to see if it salvageable. Tighten the bolts and re adjust the clutch, and yes you will have to now loosen the arm screws. The 2" spring measurement would be the easiest way to measure it. Hope for the best. Good Luck. jw
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by Joe Bell » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:14 am

I have found on several trans that quit working they had the turbo 400 disc or jack rabbit disc in them, the material had come off of the disc making them thinner, then the last plate that goes through the three holes has room to rotate and the three finger driven plate no longer does anything and then it is stuck in high gear or it slips in high?

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FundyTides
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by FundyTides » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:28 am

Back at it tomorrow and see what I can do. Joe, it has standard discs not jack rabbit ones


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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by speedytinc » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:46 pm

I suppose if you were using bolts that did not thread up enough, you could have hit the nonthreaded portion before the head seated. Thus appearing tight. If your drive plate was machined thinner or the repop bolts didnt thread up enough. I do notice that of the 2 types of late drive late screws, the earlier, slotted type dont thread up as far as the late hex heads do. I have used both styles. Never noticed a problem of the head not fully seating. If i am doing a narrow to late brake drum conversion without provided late bolts, i use allen bolts. They are threaded all the way up for that length. There is something about those bolt heads not sticking up that feels better.

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FundyTides
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by FundyTides » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:06 pm

Problem appears to be solved. Thanks to everyone who provided information, ideas and opinions. I salvaged 6 hex head bolts with extended heads from an old driving plate/disk drum that I had in my parts pile. I installed them in place of the slotted head screws that were there and tightened these and safety wired them properly. I then adjusted the clutch fingers to get the spring close to the recommended 2 " measurement. Finished up by adjusting the Low Speed connection for a free neutral and reinstalling the transmission cover. I took the car for a little run and it seems to work as it should so I think I got off lucky. This car is 1927 Canadian production and appears to have had the slotted head screws as were used in the earlier improved cars in the US. These screws have the same length unthreaded portion as the extended hex heads that I replaced them with. In trying to determine what went wrong to cause this problem, it is obvious that it was human error on my part. When I was a assembling the clutch drum many years ago, I must have been having difficulty getting the driving plate to seat properly in the disk drum and probably compensated for this by turning the screws in the clutch finger a way too far. The screws were in so far that the cotter pins were above the top of the screw and largely ineffective. It appears that when the driving disks managed to seat themselves, it left the 6 bolts holding the driving plate very loose. Luckily, I had installed safety wire and this prevented the bolts from falling out and causing mayhem in the transmission/magneto. Just thought I would post this for those who are interested in outcomes of problems posted here. Thanks again

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RajoRacer
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Re: Clutch Assembly

Post by RajoRacer » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:50 pm

Thanks for letting us know you remedied the situation !

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