What Cam Shaft to Buy
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What Cam Shaft to Buy
I am in the process of rebuilding the engine in my 26 coupe. What are your opinions on witch cam and timing gear set up, deliver the best all around performance for touring and cross country driving?
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
stipe 280 and adjustable timing gear, degree the engine.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Check out the ones from Chaffin's. http://www.chaffinsgarage.com/ When you go to their site and download the PDF, open page 72.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
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1925 Cut down pickup
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
As previously stated 280 worked great in my 26, cold lash .010 int./exh.
Also very helpful Is a forum thread that Glenn Chaffin added to from sept 4 2007, setting valve clearance a simple procedure.
Steve Jelf also has some good set up tips on his "Dauntless Geezer" site.
Also very helpful Is a forum thread that Glenn Chaffin added to from sept 4 2007, setting valve clearance a simple procedure.
Steve Jelf also has some good set up tips on his "Dauntless Geezer" site.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
What do you mean by "adjustable timing gear? It would seem to me that if the timing gear were adjustable, it would slip as you drive along and get out of time. I believe the 280 grind of the cam shaft is all the adjustment you need and can use a standard timing gear.
Norm
Norm
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
250 cam similar to original (runs very well)
or
280 cam to up the RPM/speed some
or
280 cam and advanced gear to add "grunt" for hill climbing
or
Chaffin's cam with built in advance (and use standard gear)
or
Adjustable cam (not sure if still offered)
or
280 cam to up the RPM/speed some
or
280 cam and advanced gear to add "grunt" for hill climbing
or
Chaffin's cam with built in advance (and use standard gear)
or
Adjustable cam (not sure if still offered)
Scott Conger
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Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
My understanding is that the valve timing on the Stipe and Chaffin 280 cams are ground differently. The Chaffin cam has valve timing advance ground into it, as opposed to the Stipe witch does not. It would require an advanced timing gear to accomplish that. Also, I believe, that on the Chaffin cam, the intake and exhaust are timed differently, something you can not get from a Stipe cam? I want to hear opinions on based on experienced compared to each other and to stock set up.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Thanks Scott Conger! How is the "grunt" with a Stipe and standard timing compared to the Chaffin? Or, how does the stock cam with advanced timing perform?
Scott Wendt, Witch 280 cam and timing gear set up are you running?
Scott Wendt, Witch 280 cam and timing gear set up are you running?
Last edited by Scott C. on Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
From my experience. Stipe only. No reground units. Stipe makes their own cam blanks (beefy so no flexing). Reground cams get under cut to make the lift (become very flexible). Stipe cams are relatively expensive, but, this is a one time cost for the life of your motor.
The stipe 280 super degreed PERFECT to their specs. on the bottom end on all cylinders. (trust but verify), & runs great in a stock+ T.(hi dome pistons)
One of my T's has a Stipe montana grind. Very good all around cam. Its in a 95# compression motor.
Selecting a proper cam for your motor depends on a lot of variables. Compression, valve size, carburation, manifold, porting, gearing, your expectations & driving style.
So the question is not so simple.
Timing gear: Mcearchins bronze. Least expansion when hot. Aluminum especially can grow depending on the alloy. Dont trust fiber or nylon. Both have failure rates. I have no problem running stock iron gears, if i could get NOS or ones with very little wear.
Just rerebuilt a motor because of a terrible knock when hot. It was from a reground C cam. That cam has the front cam bearing thrust ground away. First lobe banged into back of cam bearing. To be fair, the catalog does warn the builder to front thrust the cam & the timing cover. That builder did not. It did perform satisfactorily. (hi dome pistons)
I could write a book on stupid cam problems i have seen over the last 40 years. A supposid warmer cam that would not produce enough power to get up a driveway incline.(must have been a 6000rpm cam), or the reground backwards cam. Thats when i started to check cam timing on all cylinders. VERIFY.
Hope this helps to avoid a bunch of mistakes.
The stipe 280 super degreed PERFECT to their specs. on the bottom end on all cylinders. (trust but verify), & runs great in a stock+ T.(hi dome pistons)
One of my T's has a Stipe montana grind. Very good all around cam. Its in a 95# compression motor.
Selecting a proper cam for your motor depends on a lot of variables. Compression, valve size, carburation, manifold, porting, gearing, your expectations & driving style.
So the question is not so simple.
Timing gear: Mcearchins bronze. Least expansion when hot. Aluminum especially can grow depending on the alloy. Dont trust fiber or nylon. Both have failure rates. I have no problem running stock iron gears, if i could get NOS or ones with very little wear.
Just rerebuilt a motor because of a terrible knock when hot. It was from a reground C cam. That cam has the front cam bearing thrust ground away. First lobe banged into back of cam bearing. To be fair, the catalog does warn the builder to front thrust the cam & the timing cover. That builder did not. It did perform satisfactorily. (hi dome pistons)
I could write a book on stupid cam problems i have seen over the last 40 years. A supposid warmer cam that would not produce enough power to get up a driveway incline.(must have been a 6000rpm cam), or the reground backwards cam. Thats when i started to check cam timing on all cylinders. VERIFY.
Hope this helps to avoid a bunch of mistakes.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Let me add. The best performance boost comes from raising the compression 1 to 2 points (going from 3.9 to 5 or 6). A stock 26-7 head has the least compression of all the t heads. Domed pistons give the least raise, but anything is an improvement. Z heads typically had uneven combustion chambers & need a bunch of machine work to get right. There is a new aluminum head out that claims some silly 7 or 7.5 ratio. IT does not according to my CC ing. It CC's about the same as a Z head. The great thing is they use a modern aluminum head procedure that prevents the corrosion problems of the Z head.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
I am not building a "hotrod", I am going with new stock pistons, stock head, new standard valves. I just want a good solid running T that runs down the road well and can pull itself along and chug up a hill when needed.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
That good to know. Sorry i assumed you wanted a better running T, my mistake. If you dont want any performance enhancements go with a stock .250 lift. An accurate regrind would be fine for you.(would still improve performance a little)
I have talked to stock motored t drivers also. From what i hear the Stipe 280 gives more low end torque , but not a lot more top end. Perfect for an otherwise stock T.
I have talked to stock motored t drivers also. From what i hear the Stipe 280 gives more low end torque , but not a lot more top end. Perfect for an otherwise stock T.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Scott , i didnt want to belabor the point, but i will.
By asking for better hill climbing performance, you are already "hotrodish or hotrod ajacient." Even an accurately cnc stock ground cam veres from originality. Its in where YOU draw the line.
I do know a fellow club member that strictly adheres to originality. He searched for months to find a good set of over sized cast iron pistons. Runs heavy Rods, Original brass holly carb, original cam, no rux for his 14 roadster. (not even Larry Smith goes that far.) He had it painted dark blue, but not dark enough. He is going to repaint it to correct. I very much like his t. Not judgey (maybe a little. heavy rods & iron pistons?). WE are still friends. I respect his devotion to originality. My fellow chapter members run everything from worn out stock to warmed up to scary fast overhead racers. We all have a good time. This is a great hobby for everyone.
By asking for better hill climbing performance, you are already "hotrodish or hotrod ajacient." Even an accurately cnc stock ground cam veres from originality. Its in where YOU draw the line.
I do know a fellow club member that strictly adheres to originality. He searched for months to find a good set of over sized cast iron pistons. Runs heavy Rods, Original brass holly carb, original cam, no rux for his 14 roadster. (not even Larry Smith goes that far.) He had it painted dark blue, but not dark enough. He is going to repaint it to correct. I very much like his t. Not judgey (maybe a little. heavy rods & iron pistons?). WE are still friends. I respect his devotion to originality. My fellow chapter members run everything from worn out stock to warmed up to scary fast overhead racers. We all have a good time. This is a great hobby for everyone.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
I use a Stipe 280 and am very satisfied. One very important thing to remember when beefing up the low end torque. That is do not lug the engine! With more torque, it is even easier to break the crankshaft, so if it slows down to a chug, you are better to shift down. If you can pull a hill and still keep around 25 mph in high, fine, but if it starts to slow below that speed, it is much better to shift down.
Norm
Norm
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Has anyone ever attempted to adapt a harmonic balancer to a Model T to reduce torsional stress in the crankshaft?
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
I think you might find a answer (yes or why not to) to your question in one of these old discussions
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29 ... 1204779800
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/11 ... 1269138934
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5723
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1364057372
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Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Norman, What timing gear setup are you using with the Stipe 280 cam?
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Stipe has been out of the 280 all last year
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Stipe should have cams shipping in the next two-three weeks. I’m waiting for one for my model a
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
I use the standard timing gear. aluminum gear. Aluminum or brass are fine. I haven't tried nylon, however I wouldn't use a fiber gear. Fiber might be OK for a non generator engine, however, with the gear being pushed by the crankshaft and pushing the generator, it gets a lot of wear. You don't want to lose timing while driving, because you will have to tow the car home.
Norm
Norm
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Thanks for all the good information!
I am not being a "purist" at all. I am going with modern aluminum pistons. Have considered the higher compression ones, but am thinking stock compression will be fine.
Does anyone have personal experience with the Chaffin 280 cam?
I am not being a "purist" at all. I am going with modern aluminum pistons. Have considered the higher compression ones, but am thinking stock compression will be fine.
Does anyone have personal experience with the Chaffin 280 cam?
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Scott. I am not trying to change your mind, just give you more information. Really not trying to start a purity fight. From experience, i KNOW that a 1 or 2 point compression boost really improves performance. Ask others.
Your T has the lowest compression of all t's. By 27 gas was so low octane Ford went to a vaporizer. Compression ratio 3.9 or less. lowering compression was the way to make em run ok on poor gas. I doubt Ford would have lowered compression otherwise. My 28 harley originaly had 4:1 compression. Early T's have 4.5-1 compression & are known to perform better. Raising the compression a little has no down side. As far as i can tell with a lot of miles. I even get better gas mileage. The motor runs more efficiently as designed with good fuel
My eye opener: My first t went thru a series of engine upgrades over a period of 10 years. It ran great over all road conditions.
Enter my 2nd t. A stock 27 roadster P.U. with a 22 engine. It was a dog. (i was used to & spoiled by #1 T's performance.)
I ran The freeway up kellog hill to get to the Pomona swap meet.(not important, only a reference) Slowed to a crawl, barley made it.
Put on a Recardo head. Same dog. Next a Z head. Ran great, maintained 50 all the way over. Real eye opener. It was the raise in compression to 5:1 This is not a Z head endorsment. I would not run one again.
Something to think on.
When i tour with stock cars, i slow to their speeds, but i rarely have to use low pedal. "I can fake slow, you cant fake fast"
Your T has the lowest compression of all t's. By 27 gas was so low octane Ford went to a vaporizer. Compression ratio 3.9 or less. lowering compression was the way to make em run ok on poor gas. I doubt Ford would have lowered compression otherwise. My 28 harley originaly had 4:1 compression. Early T's have 4.5-1 compression & are known to perform better. Raising the compression a little has no down side. As far as i can tell with a lot of miles. I even get better gas mileage. The motor runs more efficiently as designed with good fuel
My eye opener: My first t went thru a series of engine upgrades over a period of 10 years. It ran great over all road conditions.
Enter my 2nd t. A stock 27 roadster P.U. with a 22 engine. It was a dog. (i was used to & spoiled by #1 T's performance.)
I ran The freeway up kellog hill to get to the Pomona swap meet.(not important, only a reference) Slowed to a crawl, barley made it.
Put on a Recardo head. Same dog. Next a Z head. Ran great, maintained 50 all the way over. Real eye opener. It was the raise in compression to 5:1 This is not a Z head endorsment. I would not run one again.
Something to think on.
When i tour with stock cars, i slow to their speeds, but i rarely have to use low pedal. "I can fake slow, you cant fake fast"
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Scott,
The only personal experience I have is with the Stipe .250 cam. It's done a great job and feels like it added a couple extra HP. For what you're trying to do, a .250 or maybe a .280, is all you need. Since you're doing nothing else to raise HP, anything more will probably go unnoticed. I like the Stipe products as they are new, and not regrinds. Just personal preference there. My best advice other than that, is don't overthink it.
The only personal experience I have is with the Stipe .250 cam. It's done a great job and feels like it added a couple extra HP. For what you're trying to do, a .250 or maybe a .280, is all you need. Since you're doing nothing else to raise HP, anything more will probably go unnoticed. I like the Stipe products as they are new, and not regrinds. Just personal preference there. My best advice other than that, is don't overthink it.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Jerry, what timing gear are you running with your Stipe 280, stock or, advanced?
So, no one has any experience with the Chaffin 280 cam?
So, no one has any experience with the Chaffin 280 cam?
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
The cam i mentioned that needed a front thrust was a chaffin 270 or 280. Ran well otherwise. motor had hi dome pistons.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
What head would you pick to go with the 280 cam?speedytinc wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:16 pmThis is not a Z head endorsment. I would not run one again.
Something to think on.
When i tour with stock cars, i slow to their speeds, but i rarely have to use low pedal. "I can fake slow, you cant fake fast"
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
The new aluminum head. Mfg claims 6.5 or 7?. It is not. I compared CC's , its around 5.5 (my specs are not with me now.) The feature i like is the sealing/ treatment as done on modern aluminum heads. The Z heads aluminum corrosion issues turned me off to aluminum heads. I wish someone would again make an iron head, I run lizzard heads. (no longer made)
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Scott,
It's the Stipe 250 that I run. I use the standard bronze gear sold by Dan McEachern, (sorry if I spelled the name wrong).
I have one in my '21 Runabout with a stock head, and one in my '26 Speedster with a "Z" head.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
Post by dmdeaton » Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:43 am
speedytinc wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:16 am
This is not a Z head endorsment. I would not run one again.
Something to think on.
When i tour with stock cars, i slow to their speeds, but i rarely have to use low pedal. "I can fake slow, you cant fake fast"
What head would you pick to go with the 280 cam?
Got to my spec sheets
The aluminum head i like is the Kevin Prus. He advertises in the vintage ford. I think his marketing claims scare T guys. Made me research before getting one for a customer. Prus claims 8:1. I wouldnt run that high. When questioned, he claimed a test compression reading calculated 8:1.
All the combustion chambers were the same, no bolt on interference.
I CC'd the head & calculate 5.38:1, a tad above the z head. here are some other head CC's & calculated ratios.
Stock hi head 302 CC's 3.97:1
Low 294 CC's 4.07:1
Ricardo 250 CC's 4.77:1
Z 223 CC's 5.4:1
Prus 220 CC's 5.38:1
These are specs on (unmilled) heads.
speedytinc wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:16 am
This is not a Z head endorsment. I would not run one again.
Something to think on.
When i tour with stock cars, i slow to their speeds, but i rarely have to use low pedal. "I can fake slow, you cant fake fast"
What head would you pick to go with the 280 cam?
Got to my spec sheets
The aluminum head i like is the Kevin Prus. He advertises in the vintage ford. I think his marketing claims scare T guys. Made me research before getting one for a customer. Prus claims 8:1. I wouldnt run that high. When questioned, he claimed a test compression reading calculated 8:1.
All the combustion chambers were the same, no bolt on interference.
I CC'd the head & calculate 5.38:1, a tad above the z head. here are some other head CC's & calculated ratios.
Stock hi head 302 CC's 3.97:1
Low 294 CC's 4.07:1
Ricardo 250 CC's 4.77:1
Z 223 CC's 5.4:1
Prus 220 CC's 5.38:1
These are specs on (unmilled) heads.
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
What about pistons? Aren't different pistons available?
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
There are hi dome pistons. I dont know what the compression difference over stock is. Have installed a few sets. They do improve performance with a stock head. I used hi domes on my 14 to maintain a stock look. Head was milled. Has 95# compression. I regret i have not CC'd it for some comparison #'s.
Does any on know what the compression change with hi dome pistons??
Does any on know what the compression change with hi dome pistons??
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Re: What Cam Shaft to Buy
I have Kevin's head on my engine I just started up. I was worried about the high compression. I am glad to hear it is not actually that high. I have not driven yet, only break in running.