Driving the T

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tommyleea
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Driving the T

Post by tommyleea » Fri May 07, 2021 9:37 pm

For those of you who get up to speed in your T. How far do you actually move the throttle lever? A couple of notches, half way, all the way? I still haven't shifted into high, so that is why I am asking. Just planning ahead. Thanks..Tommy


Jonah D'Avella
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Re: Driving the T

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Fri May 07, 2021 9:43 pm

Still somewhat new to this myselve, ( driving for 6 months) I bring the throttle almost all the way down in low, and reduce it to half and pop into high.
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tommyleea
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Re: Driving the T

Post by tommyleea » Fri May 07, 2021 10:09 pm

Jonah D'Avella wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:43 pm
Still somewhat new to this myselve, ( driving for 6 months) I bring the throttle almost all the way down in low, and reduce it to half and pop into high.

Thanks..I guess I was thinking about high speed throttle position.

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Driving the T

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri May 07, 2021 10:24 pm

I don't count notches. On most cars they're pretty worn anyway. I just move the throttle lever down far enough to make the car go at the speed I want to go. Oddly, the cruising speed tends to creep up if I don't watch it, so I check the speedometer often.
The inevitable often happens.
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tommyleea
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Re: Driving the T

Post by tommyleea » Fri May 07, 2021 10:28 pm

Steve Jelf wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 10:24 pm
I don't count notches. On most cars they're pretty worn anyway. I just move the throttle lever down far enough to make the car go at the speed I want to go. Oddly, the cruising speed tends to creep up if I don't watch it, so I check the speedometer often.
Thanks Steve..So, you don't put the pedal to the metal, or throttle lever to the max...for any length of time?

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Re: Driving the T

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri May 07, 2021 10:34 pm

Only when climbing a steep grade. Might have to retard a little too.
The inevitable often happens.
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tommyleea
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Re: Driving the T

Post by tommyleea » Fri May 07, 2021 10:43 pm

Steve Jelf wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 10:34 pm
Only when climbing a steep grade. Might have to retard a little too.
OK.Thanks..I don't want to get a speeding ticket..


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Re: Driving the T

Post by DHort » Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 am

I drive my touring at 30 mph. This is fast enough for me. My motor has a scat crank and has been rebuilt recently by a crack mechanic. I could go faster, but why? I am in a Model T and want to smell the roses. I even have time to count the trees in the forest.

When I start out in low, I throttle up enough to get the car moving. No need to race the engine. Just enough so I get moving, throttle down half way from that, and then I can shift to high and throttle up. Even in high I do not think my throttle lever goes much past horizontal. If I need to go farther than horizontal, there probably needs to be some adjustment.

On my touring when the throttle is all the way up, I am at a slow idle and the car will stay there. On my speedster if I raise the throttle all the way up she will stop. I go faster in the speedster and have it adjusted this way so I can use engine braking to stop or when going down a steep hill. The speedster is pretty light weight.

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Re: Driving the T

Post by Humblej » Sat May 08, 2021 7:45 am

Tommy,
You are over thinking this. there is not really any rote position for the levers, you move them based on the sound of the engine RPM and how fast or slow you want to idle or drive. You should not race the engine in any car, just give it enough gas to go. Except for a hill, you should not spend much time in first gear, just to get it up to a speed to shift to high gear, on level ground maybe 20 feet. There is now reason why you are still driving around in only low gear, time to get it out on the road.

The harder learning curve is how to use the spark lever. That is the real confusing thing for new drivers. The Ford Operators Manual shows various spark and throttle positions for various driving conditions, that's OK to begin, but driving a model T will become more of a habit over time if you understand what the levers do rather than memorizing lever positions.

Spark should always be fully retarded (all the way up) for starting, this allows the spark plugs to fire after TDC, means the engine will always start in the correct direction of rotation. This is important for your safety when hand cranking, and the longevity of your starter bendix when using the electric starter. The fuel air mixture actually burns rather slowly in the engine relative to the speed the pistons are moving, so to get as much out of the fuel combustion, the spark is advanced while the engine is running to cause the spark to ignite the fuel air mixture prior to TCD while at higher RPM. If this happens during start the engine could momentarily run backwards. So when the engine is running at a nice clip, the spark fires before the piston ever gets to the top of the cylinder so as the gas in the cylinder expands while the explosion happens and the piston is finally in the optimum position for the most bang for the buck. Retarded for starting, advanced somewhat after start, then position the spark lever to marry it with the RPM of the engine...low RPM like idle, spark about 1/2 way down but not by position, by the sound of the engine smoothing out. too much or too little spark will be noticed by feeling and hearing, not by rote position. And the actual lever position is an approximate position, a couple of notches more or less will make no real difference. A tractor gas lever is the same for the model T except you have no governor so you will move the lever more, move the gas lever for what you want the engine to do a second or so from now, move the spark lever for what the engine RPM is actually doing at the moment.

To start driving from a dead stop, advance the gas, then the spark, then quickly and forcefully step on the low speed pedal, as you get moving shift to high, let the pedal up about as fast as you would a tractor clutch pedal, RPMs will drop off so bring the spark lever back up to about 1/2 again and slowly advance it as the engine RPM speeds up. Once driving in a steady state at a constant speed on level ground just move the gas lever as needed for the conditions and the spark will probably be left alone until such time as the engine RPM changes like going up a hill or coming to a stop. Going up hill you will add gas and when RPM slows down start to retard the spark some, by listening and feeling, and if it is a real steep hill in second gear you will probably keep adding gas and reducing spark until the spark lever is at the fully retarded position. If you cant pull the hill at that point it is time to mash down on the low speed pedal and go the rest of the way in 1st gear. First gear will not move you along very fast so don't race the engine.

I would be happy to discuss further, if you want to give me a call please send me a PM and I will reply with my phone number. we should also talk carb adjustment too.

Jeff


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tommyleea
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Re: Driving the T

Post by tommyleea » Sat May 08, 2021 10:37 am

DHort wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 1:52 am
I drive my touring at 30 mph. This is fast enough for me. My motor has a scat crank and has been rebuilt recently by a crack mechanic. I could go faster, but why? I am in a Model T and want to smell the roses. I even have time to count the trees in the forest.

When I start out in low, I throttle up enough to get the car moving. No need to race the engine. Just enough so I get moving, throttle down half way from that, and then I can shift to high and throttle up. Even in high I do not think my throttle lever goes much past horizontal. If I need to go farther than horizontal, there probably needs to be some adjustment.

On my touring when the throttle is all the way up, I am at a slow idle and the car will stay there. On my speedster if I raise the throttle all the way up she will stop. I go faster in the speedster and have it adjusted this way so I can use engine braking to stop or when going down a steep hill. The speedster is pretty light weight.
Thanks David, sounds like fun..Tommy
Humblej wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 7:45 am


Tommy,
You are over thinking this. there is not really any rote position for the levers, you move them based on the sound of the engine RPM and how fast or slow you want to idle or drive. You should not race the engine in any car, just give it enough gas to go. Except for a hill, you should not spend much time in first gear, just to get it up to a speed to shift to high gear, on level ground maybe 20 feet. There is now reason why you are still driving around in only low gear, time to get it out on the road.

The harder learning curve is how to use the spark lever. That is the real confusing thing for new drivers. The Ford Operators Manual shows various spark and throttle positions for various driving conditions, that's OK to begin, but driving a model T will become more of a habit over time if you understand what the levers do rather than memorizing lever positions.

Spark should always be fully retarded (all the way up) for starting, this allows the spark plugs to fire after TDC, means the engine will always start in the correct direction of rotation. This is important for your safety when hand cranking, and the longevity of your starter bendix when using the electric starter. The fuel air mixture actually burns rather slowly in the engine relative to the speed the pistons are moving, so to get as much out of the fuel combustion, the spark is advanced while the engine is running to cause the spark to ignite the fuel air mixture prior to TCD while at higher RPM. If this happens during start the engine could momentarily run backwards. So when the engine is running at a nice clip, the spark fires before the piston ever gets to the top of the cylinder so as the gas in the cylinder expands while the explosion happens and the piston is finally in the optimum position for the most bang for the buck. Retarded for starting, advanced somewhat after start, then position the spark lever to marry it with the RPM of the engine...low RPM like idle, spark about 1/2 way down but not by position, by the sound of the engine smoothing out. too much or too little spark will be noticed by feeling and hearing, not by rote position. And the actual lever position is an approximate position, a couple of notches more or less will make no real difference. A tractor gas lever is the same for the model T except you have no governor so you will move the lever more, move the gas lever for what you want the engine to do a second or so from now, move the spark lever for what the engine RPM is actually doing at the moment.

To start driving from a dead stop, advance the gas, then the spark, then quickly and forcefully step on the low speed pedal, as you get moving shift to high, let the pedal up about as fast as you would a tractor clutch pedal, RPMs will drop off so bring the spark lever back up to about 1/2 again and slowly advance it as the engine RPM speeds up. Once driving in a steady state at a constant speed on level ground just move the gas lever as needed for the conditions and the spark will probably be left alone until such time as the engine RPM changes like going up a hill or coming to a stop. Going up hill you will add gas and when RPM slows down start to retard the spark some, by listening and feeling, and if it is a real steep hill in second gear you will probably keep adding gas and reducing spark until the spark lever is at the fully retarded position. If you cant pull the hill at that point it is time to mash down on the low speed pedal and go the rest of the way in 1st gear. First gear will not move you along very fast so don't race the engine.

I would be happy to discuss further, if you want to give me a call please send me a PM and I will reply with my phone number. we should also talk carb adjustment too.

Jeff
Thanks for the in-depth Jeff. This helps. I was trying to get a picture in my mind of lever approximate position. They say a Model T can go 40 MPH, so I was wondering if the throttle lever would be all the way down, or not necessarily. You are right I just need to get it on the road. Thanks for the offer to talk, you might hear from me after my first trip. Cheers...Tommy


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Re: Driving the T

Post by jiminbartow » Sat May 08, 2021 11:45 am

Some say these diagrams are not accurate, but they work for me and Ford saw fit to publish them in the day when, back then, the lever to lever configuration was just as confusing. If anything, it can be used as a visual reference to see how the levers relate to one another by using the description of what each configuration does. Of course each car is different so the configurations might not be exact for your car, but you can use this to determine what the general range of the configurations are best for your car to do what you need the car to do. Jim Patrick

CED2AB95-54B4-4C9B-80B0-93907414E424.jpeg


Topic author
tommyleea
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Re: Driving the T

Post by tommyleea » Sat May 08, 2021 12:01 pm

jiminbartow wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:45 am
Some say these diagrams are not accurate, but they work for me and Ford saw fit to publish them in the day when, back then, the lever to lever configuration was just as confusing. If anything, it can be used as a visual reference to see how the levers relate to one another by using the description of what each configuration does. Of course each car is different so the configurations might not be exact for your car, but you can use this to determine what the general range of the configurations are best for your car to do what you need the car to do. Jim Patrick


CED2AB95-54B4-4C9B-80B0-93907414E424.jpeg
Thanks Jim..Good visual..Tommy


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Re: Driving the T

Post by Bud Delong » Sat May 08, 2021 1:00 pm

Once started i advance the spark until the engine speeds up [most of the way down] and i leave it there. All those positions are bs to my way of thinking?? Bud.
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Re: Driving the T

Post by Dan Haynes » Sat May 08, 2021 2:07 pm

Our friend Tom Carnegie at Antique Auto Ranch in Spokane had about the simplest description of the operation of the spark lever: "Up to light, down to burn."
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Re: Driving the T

Post by jiminbartow » Sat May 08, 2021 3:31 pm

I have reviewed the above posts and did not see anything that refers to exactly what the spark lever does. To new drivers who are unsure as to what the spark lever does, it is simple. The spark lever controls the timing. Just like on a pre-computer car where you adjusted the timing by twisting the distributor cap, the spark lever does the same thing by twisting the commutator (timer) back and forth to adjust the timing in order to obtain the most efficient operation for the conditions (hills, traffic, cruising speed) and speed you are going. Jim Patrick

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Re: Driving the T

Post by Oldav8tor » Sat May 08, 2021 6:32 pm

I don't notice a lot of change in the engine with the position of the spark lever except it does run better in about the middle position than all the way up (retarded for starting.) Follow the general guidelines in the chart, especially remembering to retard the spark when climbing hills where the engine starts to lug a bit. You'll notice that for most driving condition the position of the spark lever mimics the position of the throttle. If you have a good ear, maybe you can fine adjust the timing and get a little more performance but don't obsess over it.
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