Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
elliott1936
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tom
Last Name: Elliott
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Speedster 1927 speedster
Location: Portland
MTFCA Number: 9495
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 9495
Board Member Since: 2013

Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by elliott1936 » Sat May 08, 2021 7:10 pm

I wonder if there is a good fix for a loose bearing race in the front wheel hub of the model T? The tolerance is about 012 thousand and the race just drops in. Has any one use the Lock tight product to tighten the race in the housing?
The hub is a Three bolt Ash wire wheel. Let me know that you have done with this problem. Tom


sweet23
Posts: 481
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:19 pm
First Name: Darryl
Last Name: Bobzin
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2, '25 T Runabouts, '14 Touring
Location: Kannapolis,NC
MTFCA Number: 27211
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by sweet23 » Sat May 08, 2021 7:51 pm

Green loctite used to be a saver in the racing world, but I have never tried it in a T front hub.

User avatar

dobro1956
Posts: 1285
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Donnie
Last Name: Brown
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Sport Touring, 1919 Speedster, 1914 Speedster, Wards tractor conversion, non starter 1926 Improved Touring
Location: Hills of Arkansas
MTFCA Number: 49575

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by dobro1956 » Sat May 08, 2021 9:12 pm

There will be some who will poo-poo using a "strawberry fit" on a front wheel bearing race. But in my younger years with no money for "good stuff" I have fixed many a worn out hub on 1960s and 70s era cars and trucks that travel way faster than a T ever will. . To do a "strawberry fit" you take a center punch and punch the entire inner surface of the hub where the race sits. Get as many punch pricks as possible that are still separated from each other. You want the inside of the hub to look like a bunch of "strawberry seeds" Then use a Lock Tight type of product for bearing races or bushings. I have used "press fit" by permatex in the past. I do not know if they still make it or not. I think Lock Tight also has a "press fit" product. This technique has been used by mechanics and machinests for years to save hard to get items. When pressing in the race after doing the "strawberry seed pricks" Make sure to keep the area behind the race clear of the little metal flecks that are sheared off the top of the "strawberry seeds" when installing the race. There will not be much flecks but just watch to see that it is clear. That way the race will "seat" all the way back in the hub.

But, (disclaimer) You must make your own decisions as to if it will work for you. I personally would have no issue doing a "strawberry fit" but I can not decide for you. Others on the forum will probably chime in with their own opinions...


Dave Sullivan
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:35 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Sullivan
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by Dave Sullivan » Sat May 08, 2021 10:52 pm

I have used "Strawberry fit" lots of times with not as many punch marks as above, worked for me, Locktite 660 completes the repair, if you can get it. Dave in Bellingham

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by DanTreace » Sat May 08, 2021 10:55 pm

Best fix was for a 3 lug hub, Disteel, was to take hub and new race to a machine shop.
Had same issue, race just flopped, too loose for Loctite, even JB Weld, as that cement won’t let the race stay centered.

Shop reamed the bore slightly, place a machined sleeve to allow the new race to be properly press-fitted.
Cost was less than the new Timken bearing to ride in the new race :)
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


speedytinc
Posts: 3839
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by speedytinc » Sat May 08, 2021 10:57 pm

loctite 660 is still available. excellent in this application.


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2949
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun May 09, 2021 8:07 am

DanTreace wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 10:55 pm
Best fix was for a 3 lug hub, Disteel, was to take hub and new race to a machine shop.

Shop reamed the bore slightly, place a machined sleeve to allow the new race to be properly press-fitted.
Cost was less than the new Timken bearing to ride in the new race :)
That can work if your hub has enough "meat" left in it, such that it doesn't weaken the hub. Along the machine shop route, would also be the option of having the hub bore ground, to "clean it up", then have it hard chromed and ground back to the proper size. Wouldn't be worth the cost for an ordinary T hub, but this one is different!


John Illinois
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:49 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Burgett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
Location: Camargo Illinois
MTFCA Number: 29590

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by John Illinois » Sun May 09, 2021 8:16 am

I have used loctite 660 on several hubs. I assemble the race in hub and tighten on the axle to center the race. Has always turned smooth and held up.


John


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun May 09, 2021 9:08 am

It sounds to me like the strawberry fit process amounts to hand knurling.


Dan Hatch
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama
MTFCA Number: 49974

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by Dan Hatch » Sun May 09, 2021 9:13 am

Look up Metalizing or Spray welding. This is used all over the world to fix what you are talking about.
I have used it to fix all kinds of shafts, pulleys and hubs for many years.
Used to fix 26/27 wire wheel hubs. Last I had done years ago cost was $50.00 hub.
Hub has to be clean as new born baby. This permanent fix. Dan


Adam
Posts: 1411
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: Adam
Last Name: Doleshal
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘13 Touring, ‘24 Touring, ‘25 TT dump truck, ‘26 Tudor, ‘20 Theiman harvester T powerplant, ‘20 T Staude tractor
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 23809
MTFCI Number: 1
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by Adam » Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 am

If the hub is that worn, it is very likely work-hardened, which means it is not as strong as it should be. If it was properly cleaned and Magnafluxed, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were cracks too. Most every wood wheel hub I’ve seen with that degree of wear had some cracking present. What you have is rarer and more valuable than a plain old wood wheel hub, so the temptation is there to fix it, but if it was me, I’d scrap it.

100+ year old car with no seatbelts, rollbar, or safety equipment besides the guy who works on it and the guy behind the wheel...

According to Timken, a Locktite product shouldn’t be used in the presence of a Timken tapered bearing. I’m guessing Locktite says it’s a great fix though...


speedytinc
Posts: 3839
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by speedytinc » Sun May 09, 2021 11:13 am

The 660 locktite is made for filling the gap for worn shafts & bearing races. It is thick like toothpaste. Designed for gaps to .5mm. I have used in this exact application on 27 W/W hubs with no failures (yet) with & without "strawberry" pricking.


Topic author
elliott1936
Posts: 273
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tom
Last Name: Elliott
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Speedster 1927 speedster
Location: Portland
MTFCA Number: 9495
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 9495
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: Loose outer bearing race front wheel

Post by elliott1936 » Sun May 09, 2021 4:53 pm

Thanks guys. Al your comments are dully noted. I think I will try the lock tite 660. Tom

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic