QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

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Jack Tarlinton
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QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:02 am

Hello all,

I'm new here and a Model T rookie. I have been observing the threads and doing considerable research into for the last few months now, which means that I'm happy to admit that I still know nothing!

I recently acquired a project from a fellow who is too old and has too many projects.

It's an Australian 26/27 tourer, and is missing the back section so it will be a cutoff, and a pretty beaten up looking car once assembled.

It is completely disassembled with the exception of the rear end which has been rebuilt. All of the wood is missing, but I'm getting my head around that at the moment. I have already discovered that some parts are wrong and belong to earlier Model Ts...

I have been starting from the ground up on this project which appeals to me. I like challenges! I am a luthier specialising in reproductions of 1920s acoustic guitars, and have a background as a carpenter and props maker on some very big Hollywood movies so big projects are nothing new for me.

SO, back to my question. Most of the parts are coming together as they should, but the back panel of the font seat I have doesn't fit. I may have been sold the wrong part from the wrong year, or I might not be understanding how to use it.

Even though I don't have the seat or seat riser, I do have measurements off this wonderful forum and those seat measurements make sense when I look at my chassis with running boards and splash aprons.

HOWEVER - my seat back panel is waaaaayyyy too wide. I understand the seat back panel doesn't come all the way to the floor but I still believe it is still too wide.

My seat back panel widths are:

Top - 1287mm
Bottom - 1187mm

The measurement I have for the widest point of the seat is 38.25" - 971.5mm.

This panel defines the locations of the panel between the tourer doors and the one I have seems to be around 8" too wide at the lowest point for the subframe I need to build. It is far too wide for the splash aprons.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Jack
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John kuehn
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by John kuehn » Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:25 pm

Hopefully you don’t have many mismatched body panels. It’s easy to get some mismatched pieces for the later 24-27 T’s if it’s not put together to begin with.
I don’t know if the Australian late T’s bodies are are identical to the US bodies but you can go to the Fordwood website and checkout the body diagrams to get an idea for the 26-27 Touring wood and body metal. It shows where the wood pieces go and that may be of help. Somebody here on the forum who has a 26-27 Touring hopefully can help more.


Topic author
Jack Tarlinton
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:23 pm

Hi John,

I actually have the wood kit for the tourer - some of which is helpful and the rest from the rear section I'll sell.

The 2 pieces of wood in the kit that form the front seat tack rail don't meet up in the middle, which I think is telling.

Fingers crossed someone can help me!


John kuehn
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by John kuehn » Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:43 pm

Jack:
If the panel is to wide and the top of the panel looks like it may be a Ford panel maybe it could be cut down enough to match the wood pieces you have and the rest of your car.
But I guess that would be a last resort way to get your body together. If your pretty handy with sheet metal it might work. Just a thought if you don’t find the correct panel. And it would be a challenge.


Topic author
Jack Tarlinton
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:12 pm

You may be right John.

Cutting a section out of it to make it narrower is something I have considered, especially considering the rough condition it is in.

This is not something I would consider for a panel in good condition.


John kuehn
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by John kuehn » Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:37 pm

Jack if that was my car and I wanted it to be a decent looking driver car I would cut the panel in the center to make it the correct width and use the piece you cut out for a backup strip and attach to the inside of the panel. It could be tack welded in place and the outside joint could be filled in with body filler. It wouldn’t take but a little to fill it in and a good body man could use a wire feed welder to weld it shut and then be smoothed out. Just a tip from a farm boy who grew up fixing things the best he could with what he had!


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Jack Tarlinton
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:04 am

I think that may be the best option.


John Codman
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by John Codman » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:18 am

I have a '27 touring car; the body width just behind the front seat back panel is roughly 1200 mm. The panel would be a hair narrower then that, so if Australian bodies are the same width as American cars, your panel is indeed too wide. By nature I am efficient (the bride calls it lazy) and I would attempt to find the correct panel. You said that the condition of the panel isn't great, and this is a panel that doesn't take much of a beating, so you should be able to find a good one and save a lot of time and effort.


Topic author
Jack Tarlinton
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:59 pm

Thanks John.

Do you know, by any chance, the lower width of body at the rear door hinge area where it meets the splash aprons?
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DanTreace
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by DanTreace » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:57 am

EF5D8276-7BA9-4D6D-BB86-85394F436674.jpeg
Height at lower rear door to body edge.

If you meant the width (across the body sill) then the width for in rear door lower body edge to opposite rear door body edge is approx. 43”.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Topic author
Jack Tarlinton
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:56 am

Thanks so much Dan,

the width at the bottom of the sill - across the body - is what I'm after.

Your measurement of 43" is very close to what I though it should be.

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.


John Codman
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by John Codman » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm

I got 1098 mm to the outside of the bottom of the body where you described. 1143 mm across the door sill. BTW: I like those side lights!


Allan
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Allan » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:41 am

Jack, you should be aware that US bodies are constructed way differently to Australian built cars. Theirs have almost no timber other than that to which the upholstery is attached--- no timber framing, no timber base. I suggest you try to find an owner of a similar car and compare what you have with their car.

It has been over 20 years since I rebuilt the bodywork on my 1927 cut down tourer. I made it into a woodie by leaving it as a cut down tourer and adding a wooden open canopy shooting brake. I do remember shortening the panel between the front and rear doors, and substituting the wooden C pillar of the back door jamb for the roof support for my top. There is no wooden framing in US bodies, so the panel behind the seat will be different.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.


Topic author
Jack Tarlinton
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:00 am

Thank you Allan,

I am aware of some of these differences between the Australian and US vehicles, but from what I can tell some aspects certainly seem to vary quite a lot within the Australian built cars and it is something I will be investigating further.

My problem has been that the actual cars I am able to inspect have been restored and much of what I need to see is hidden.

However, this forum has already provided me with wonderful research material regarding wooden parts.

There is so much to learn which is why I have fallen in love with the Model T.


Topic author
Jack Tarlinton
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 10:37 pm
First Name: Jack
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:01 am

Thank you John, that is very helpful.


Allan
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Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Allan » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:00 pm

Jack, there is a vast array of differences in pre 1926-7 T bodies, as the cars were built by multiple builders to their own designs. Not so with with the 26-7 models. These were Ford factory built in the new Ford plant in Geelong, so all are the same. That said, they are way different in construction to the US cars, while remaining dimensionally the same. Any Australian built 26-7 car should be comparable'

Allan from down under.


Topic author
Jack Tarlinton
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 19, 2021 10:37 pm
First Name: Jack
Last Name: Tarlinton
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Re: QUESTION regarding tourer front seat back panel

Post by Jack Tarlinton » Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:43 am

Thanks for clarifying Allan. It really helps!

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