MTFCA Forum

Hello to the forum!

Having wanted a Model T since who knows when, I finally purchased a 22 Touring in running condition. Since I'm learning as I go, I'm curious about a few things. One: My brake handle come all the way to the seat and the lever on it seems to have no locking function. In the "neutral" position, it vibrated forward and the car jolted and stalled.

Two: the engine starts fairly easily (the coils only intermittently buzz) but has a rolling idle and won't rev much at all. It runs the same on magneto or battery. The seller said to have the coils rebuilt and I don't doubt him but is there and way to test them with a multi meter?

Three: It leaks a 3" diameter spot from the tail of the gearbox every time it runs. Seal?

Welcome. I'll try to answer your questions:

1.) Does pulling the lever all the way back engage the emergency / parking brakes? If not, you may need to adjust the brake rods assuming they aren't missing.
2.) If the lever won't lock in place either the teeth or pawls are worn or the linkage needs work. Guys who drag the lever over the teeth without squeezing the handle will eventually wear them out.

3.) If the coils have never been rebuilt the capacitors are no doubt poor. They could be part of the problem as could the commutator if it is dirty or worn.

4.) When you say "Gearbox" are you referring to the differential "pumpkin" or the rear of the hogshead which covers the transmission? It makes a difference. Model T's dripping oil are not unusual....too much dripping should be addressed.

First of all welcome to the Model T world!
A really good way to get yourself acquainted to your T is to get the Ford service manual and the related MTFCA manuals related to the different aspects of the car. They are avaliable from the various T parts suppliers.
Go to the home page on the MTFCA and then go to resources. There you will find Lang’s T parts, Snyder’s and others.
Request a catalog and they will send you one.
The parts catalogs are a great resource of what T parts look like and help identifying what you need.
In regards to your brake lever not working properly, remove the floorboards. They come out pretty easy. Pick them up and set aside. Take a look at the lower end of the lever and ck the piece that is attached to the frame that has teeth on it. They could be worn enough to not engage the small pawl on the bottom of the handle. Also the small spring that holds out the piece on the back of the brake handle is broken off or weak. It’s used hold out the piece that helps keep the pawl engaged.

You need to fix that first and then ck out the leak from the rear of your transmission.
Good luck and read and study the Service manual and other T publications.
There also could be some T clubs in your area. You can find their location on this website.
They can help too as others on the forum will also.

1) your parking brake is out of adjustment
1b) Your brake lever has a "pawl" that holds position on a geared "brake quadrant" Both may need replacing. If you are lucky replacing the pawl only, will fix it.

2)If coils buzz & throw a blue spark ok for now. Turn the motor to a buzzing coil. Short out the plug with a screwdriver, blade away from the block, looking for a healthy spark jump. Do that 4 each cyl. One Coil only buzzes when ready to fire a particular cylinder. Coils must be tuned (very important) with special equipment. Thats a serious big discussion alone. Search the forum. Multimeter wont help here. Get hooked up with a local enthusiast & club.

3)4th main must be packed with grease. There is no seal. However, if there is a gasket under the D/S flange it will leak more. Worn out they leak excessively there. Oil level is BETWEEN the 2 petcocks. Excessive oil causes excessively more oil leaks.

Get the T1 service manual & read it NOW. It will guide you. A MUST. All T parts vendors sell them.

Do a compression test. That will tell you how worn out your engine is. A really good engine should have 55-60#'s Consistent between cyls.
A rough test: Hand crank the motor, the compression resistance should be equal for all 4 cylinders.
Welcome to Pandora's box

T1 service manual!!!!!!!!

Here is a good article - "Taking a Model T out of Moth Balls."
http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG93.html

There are several T owners in your area. and a club
It appears that the MTFCA Chapters information is out of date. You might try to follow up with someone in the "Long Island Motor Touring Club"
According to a website Meetings are held the second Thursday of every month at 8 pm at:
The Town of Oyster Bay Senior Citizen Center (may be Community Center)
214 N Albany Ave.
Massapequa, NY 11758
Not sure if the club is still active but you check at the Center when it reopens

Not sure how to post a picture..Anyway, the floor is out, the rods to the rear axle are intact. The pawl on the lever is not lined up with the teeth on the rack. I also noticed the thin rod from the dash choke knob to the bell crank is missing.

This rod for the carb?

https://www.macsautoparts.com/model-t-c ... 425-1.html

You should also get a set of cotter pins from Lang’s, I’m sure if you look around your car you’ll see more than a few castellated nuts with missing cotter pins. I found a few surprises myself on Lizzie. Snug them up if necessary and put a pin in. You’ll need a cotter pin to hold the carb adjustment rod to the carburetor mixture control anyways, might as well get the set for $6 and put them where any are missing.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/BS1.aspx

It's hard to tell why the pawl doesn't align with the quadrant, but either something is worn to make the cross shaft shift or the pawl to the right or something is bent. If you can get the pawl to line up with the quadrant, the problem with the lever locking in place should be solved. To get the brake to lock with the lever before the lever hits the seat, would be to tighten up each rod one half turn at a time until you achieve this. Then do two things, One would be to jack up both rear wheels and be sure they can turn freely with the lever in neutral of high gear position. The other thing would be to sure the rods are equally adjusted so that both wheels stop at the same position of the lever. If it pulls to one side, either loosen that side or tighten the other side till they are equal and the wheels are free to spin with the brake off.
Norm

The pawl should be in line with the teeth on the quadrant. Position the pawl where it will go under the the quadrant and try to slide the cross shaft where the pawl will be under the quadrant. Somehow it got moved over. Something has caused it to move over or something is bent.
OR the pin that holds the pawl in place on the hand brake handle is almost pushed out. If it is that’s your issue.

Referring to the picture above, note the oil hole for the controller shaft. Get some oil in there. Also referring to the same photo, it appears the pawl is worn. It should have a sharp point.

If you do not have one, get the Ford Service Manual. It will answer a lot of questions. Dan

You can weld it up and grind a new point.
Taint purty but it works.

A lot of good advice here! Just one more thought, with a handbrake in that condition it's advisable to jack up a rear wheel or at least chock the fronts when hand cranking. Enjoy your " T ", it's a fierce learning curve !

I really appreciate all of the replies! As soon as I get a somewhat less humid day, I'm diving into this and all the other small issues.

My parking pawl did not line up and the teeth were worn. Though I don't remember what I did to fix the alignment, I must have been able to look at it and figure it out. The teeth I sharpened with a hacksaw blade when it was disassembled from the frame. Put it back together and it holds good. I also bought new springs, one for the handle and one for the tooth lever.

If you decide to replace the handbrake pawl Lang’s has new ones and the step rivet that’s used to secure it. The parking brake assembly isn’t hard to take off and work on. Good luck!

Your handbrake pawl is well worn. It needs to be sharp for correct engagement. Either weld it up and file a new point, or replace it with a new one.
I rebuild them because RHD replacements are not available, especially the early cast ones. To be able to file/hacksaw the teeth on the quadrant, it should be taken off the frame. Otherwise you cannot easily get to all the teeth. I have seen some horrible efforts with these. If you have to take it off, you might as well fit a new one. The laser cut ones are much better, havin full width teeth to engage the pawl.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:32 pm

Your handbrake pawl is well worn. It needs to be sharp for correct engagement. Either weld it up and file a new point, or replace it with a new one.
I rebuild them because RHD replacements are not available, especially the early cast ones. To be able to file/hacksaw the teeth on the quadrant, it should be taken off the frame. Otherwise you cannot easily get to all the teeth. I have seen some horrible efforts with these. If you have to take it off, you might as well fit a new one. The laser cut ones are much better, havin full width teeth to engage the pawl.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

I'm sorry Allen..Being a rookie could you tell me what RHD stands for?

Virtus wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:08 pm

A lot of good advice here! Just one more thought, with a handbrake in that condition it's advisable to jack up a rear wheel or at least chock the fronts when hand cranking. Enjoy your " T ", it's a fierce learning curve !

For sure! I definitely wont be starting it until that brake is sorted out..My fenders and garage will thank me!

Techmaven wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:46 pm

Allan wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:32 pm

Your handbrake pawl is well worn. It needs to be sharp for correct engagement. Either weld it up and file a new point, or replace it with a new one.
I rebuild them because RHD replacements are not available, especially the early cast ones. To be able to file/hacksaw the teeth on the quadrant, it should be taken off the frame. Otherwise you cannot easily get to all the teeth. I have seen some horrible efforts with these. If you have to take it off, you might as well fit a new one. The laser cut ones are much better, havin full width teeth to engage the pawl.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

I'm sorry Allen..Being a rookie could you tell me what RHD stands for?

Steering wheel is on the wrong side.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:54 pm

Techmaven wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:46 pm

Allan wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:32 pm

Your handbrake pawl is well worn. It needs to be sharp for correct engagement. Either weld it up and file a new point, or replace it with a new one.
I rebuild them because RHD replacements are not available, especially the early cast ones. To be able to file/hacksaw the teeth on the quadrant, it should be taken off the frame. Otherwise you cannot easily get to all the teeth. I have seen some horrible efforts with these. If you have to take it off, you might as well fit a new one. The laser cut ones are much better, havin full width teeth to engage the pawl.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

I'm sorry Allen..Being a rookie could you tell me what RHD stands for?

Steering wheel is on the wrong side.

LOL! I'm a goofball.

John K, you are wrong again! On a right hand drive car the steering wheel is on the right side. Clearly, if this is the right side, as it is, having it elsewhere is wrong. Then again, if you are member of the secret sect which believes that the left and right side of a car are determined by looking at the car from the front, you could just be right!

Allan from down under.

Removed all the plugs, attached the wires and slowly cranked through with the key on...3 of the 4 have a meh blue spark and the second from the back won't spark at the electrode, only when I lift it slightly off the head will it arc from the threads to the head..Fouled? Compression test tomorrow.

Also, when the plugs are installed, should I be seeing plug threads showing? They only screw in to about halfway up the threads.

Techmaven wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:08 pm

Removed all the plugs, attached the wires and slowly cranked through with the key on...3 of the 4 have a meh blue spark and the second from the back won't spark at the electrode, only when I lift it slightly off the head will it arc from the threads to the head..Fouled? Compression test tomorrow.

Also, when the plugs are installed, should I be seeing plug threads showing? They only screw in to about halfway up the threads.

Threads are 1/2" tapered pipe. Lucky you have good thread holes still.
Try switching bad plug with a known good. That will tell you for sure.

Any specific tools needed to replace brake lever pawl rivet? I have hammer and small anvil..

Grind off the set side flush with the handle.(opposite pawl) Pin punch & hammer.

Replaced the pawl yesterday and everything went fine. Tried to start the car but only got a couple of momentary firings. The coils buzz quietly...when one is buzzing. Battery shows 6.2v, is that low?

If the capacitor is very defective, I found that the points on the coil will show a yellowish spark when buzzing. I suspect the capacitors are bad if never replaced. Replacing is not a difficult job just messy. A capacitor testing meter is available on line and is quite affordable. There are coil rebuilders available and reasonable, but you can do it yourself with good results. Interest and budget will determine your choice.
Ar t Mirtes

The 6.2 battery voltage is good with a 6 volt battery when the coils are buzzing.

Art M wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:01 pm

The 6.2 battery voltage is good with a 6 volt battery when the coils are buzzing.

It's 6.2v with the key off. Also, It shows a small blue spark at the plugs..I haven't looked at the coils themselves while (quietly) buzzing.

John
Welcome to the MTFCA Forum and a great group of T folks who’ll help you along the way.
I’m working with a few in the Long Island area to regenerate the T Chapter there.
If you’d like to contact me, I’ll work to connect you with them.
Kltagert@cox.net

You can go to Snyder’s or Lang’s to find the following new reproduction hand brake parts if you are unable to refurbish the original parts:

Hey John where on the island are you East or West?

L.I. Tom wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:51 pm

Hey John where on the island are you East or West?

I'm in southwest Suffolk County.

Techmaven wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:00 pm

L.I. Tom wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:51 pm

Hey John where on the island are you East or West?

I'm in southwest Suffolk County.

Not too far I'm a within a mile of exit 70LIE

L.I. Tom wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:22 pm

Techmaven wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:00 pm

L.I. Tom wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:51 pm

Hey John where on the island are you East or West?

I'm in southwest Suffolk County.

Not too far I'm a within a mile of exit 70LIE

It's a bit far if by T..lol

If you want to come out this way Sometime and check out your coils I have a strobo spark we can check them out maybe set them up or let you know if they need rebuild.

L.I. Tom wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:52 pm

If you want to come out this way Sometime and check out your coils I have a strobo spark we can check them out maybe set them up or let you know if they need rebuild.

Very nice of you to offer that!

I’m going to try and post a picture of the band adjusters

I’m going to try and post a picture of the band adjusters