MTFCA Forum

I have a car (older restoration) with twist turn top-to-body fasteners in place that are in good shape. I do not have curtains (which I would like to make) or the grommets. I see that restoration suppliers sell two kinds of these fasteners, one called a Common Sense fastener and one called a Murphy fastener. The male ends, female grommets, and back plates can be bought separately. My male ends aren't marked, so I don't know what I have. I am assuming if there are two kinds, they have some differences in size, shape, or quality. Are their parts are interchangable? I will probaly send one of my male ends to the vendor to assure a match, but if there is a way to tell me the difference, it might save that step. Can anyone help with this question?

I believe the explanation I'm about to give is correct, but if not it's comforting to know that I'm absolutely certain I'll be corrected by someone.

Both the fasteners you ask about consist of a 'male' portion usually fastened to the car, and a 'female' portion usually attached, grommet-like, to a side curtain or some other removable soft part.

A "Common Sense" fastener's 'male' portion is oblong, with rounded ends. It measures about 1/2" by about 3/16", and comes in several lengths so it can be used on multiple thicknesses of attachment. You slip the 'female' part(s) over it, then give the tip a quarter turn, and a detent holds it in that position making it impossible for the 'female' to fall off.

A "Murphy" fastener's 'male' is round, with a round tip, about 1/8" in diameter, and again comes in several lengths. It has indented ridges around it in several places. The 'female' has a hole that fits over it, and inside the hole there are a couple of springy wires stretched across the hole, so that when you push the 'female' over the 'male', the springs find an indent and close into the indent, holding the 'female' on.

Now I'll watch the Forum and see how far off I am!

Common and Murphy are the same. Lift-a-dat is another alternative Lang's has both.

Early Murphy fasteners are cast brass and have an hour glass shaped base. About 1912 they changed to an oval shaped base. The eyelets were more crowned during this era. Many other brands of fasteners were used on Model Ts, including Anchor.
Ford started using black enameled fasteners about the time of the black era, maybe earlier. The eyelets were flatter too. I'm not sure when nickel plated fasteners were used.
Common sense fasteners are readily available today, (boat tops and side curtains use them) but some have markings on them that do not look like the originals.

What year and body car are you working on?

Keith

Peter's second description fits lift-the-dot fasteners. I believe common sense fastener is the term used to describe modern replacements for Murphy fasteners. They have the turnbuckle on the male piece and use the two piece female grommet in the curtains.
Here in Australia we have two variants of the modern type. One is squarer on the top of the turnbuckle and it is branded 'dot' on the top of the turnbuckle. The second is not branded and is more rounded on the end.
Most types have the turnbuckle formed around a central pin, on which it rotates. This means the turnbuckle is hollow. There were some variants where the turnbuckle was solid brass, and so was not as 'fat' as the hollow types. Some of these were plain. Others were cross hatched.
The challenge is finding the correct screws to fit the male bases on the body. Most use a slotted raised head countersunk screw, [oval head?] of 4 gauge x 1/2 - 3/4" long, either brass or nickel plated, depending on the finish of the piece being mounted.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.

I will never use a modern common sense fastener. They just don't look right on any year Model T. Do what you wish!

Some of the Murphy fasteners have an M in a a circle in the side of the turn piece.

Larry, what are the alternatives? I needed more than 40 for my 1917 shooting brake. Do you have a source for 40 originals I could replace them with?

Allan from down under.

Allan-
This will get you half way there...
https://www.amazon.com/Fastener-Retaine ... B0842YCMGK

10 more here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293928096090?m ... olid=10001

Here is enough for two:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313561194555?m ... olid=10001

: ^ )

Keith

Actual Murphy brand have a M in a circle. They were made from cast brass early and evolved into brass stampings. ( still with the M in a circle) . As Keith shows, they are out there and easy to find. I just sold a bunch about a year ago as I was cleaning out some drawers here. Older upholstery shops in bigger cities are a good place to ask nicely.
What Larry neglected to state, Murphy fasteners were only for the early Ts. I’m not sure when they changed to Common Sense, but they are pretty much the same except for no M in a circle. A friend from a long time ago built a champion 1914 T and he searched out Murphy fasteners for it. Perhaps the experts can share when the approximate change was. Old stock Common Sense are out there, just need to look , too. Pretty easy to find, and very correct for a T. I have lots of black finish ones I can be talked out of. ( parkerized finish, I think) The modern Common Sense have been cheapened, but still made today. Those would be my last resort, but I’d have to be very desperate. If you find some and need them black, a beadblasted finish and then powder coated in a Matt black finish will give a very robust finish. They were probably installed originally with blued or parkerized oval head wood screws, easy to find still. I wouldn’t be surprised if late Ts used nickle plated common sense fasteners, but I personally don’t know. Perhaps those tha5 do could share that, also.
There are several similar fasteners that are pre- Murphy brand. Some would probably be appropriate for very early T and pre-T , as tops were optional equipment originally. I can add pics but don’t want to mess up the Murphy thread.

Thanks for the leads Keith. I have the job done with modern replacements like those mentioned in the last site. However, the box of original old stock ones would have been great, but out of reach to me because the moron will not post to Australia! What's up with some folks? Perhaps he was a yachtie, and remembers who first wrested the Americas Cup away from the USA.

Allan from down under.

I’ve been called a moron plenty of times, and a touron a couple of times, even though we send to Australia all the time! Let’s clear that up, Allan !

Tim, I was referring to the Ebay seller on the third link Keith posted. It is galling to see something one needs, offered for sale, but then have delivery refused. Anyone would think Australia was on another planet! Crikey, we almost speak the same language!
Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:40 am

Tim, I was referring to the Ebay seller on the third link Keith posted. It is galling to see something one needs, offered for sale, but then have delivery refused. Anyone would think Australia was on another planet! Crikey, we almost speak the same language!
Allan from down under.

eBay has an International Shipping Service available to seller's. Seller sends to ebay for shipping and they handle the Customs work & ship to the buyer. Unfortunately the resulting shipping charges would include shipping from the seller to the Service Center and then from the Service Center to the Buyer. I don't use the service,
However I have recently sold some wheel clamps to a person in Finland and to another in Sweden via United States Postal Service Priority Mail. I think you can see the frustration International Shipping can cause. I am reluctant to make a claim on the shipment to Sweden because if they settle the wheel clamps will be scrapped.
size=150]To Finland: [/size]
June 9, 2021, 1:41 pm USPS in possession of item
June 14, 2021, 5:43 am Arrived at USPS Regional Facility CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER
June 22, 2021, 10:55 am Departed FORT WORTH, UNITED STATES
June 24, 2021, 9:28 am Departed TOKYO, JAPAN
June 24, 2021, 4:18 pm Departed HELSINKI, FINLAND
July 8, 2021, 4:32 pm Customs Clearance Processing Complete FINLAND
July 8, 2021 at 4:33 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination. Buyer waiting for call to pay import tarrif

To Sweden
June 21, 2021, 1:48 pm USPS in possession of item
June 23, 2021, 8:39 am Arrived at USPS Facility AURORA, IL 60502
June 23, 2021, 10:41 am Arrived at USPS Regional Facility CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER
June 23, 2021, 12:56 pm Arrived at USPS Facility AURORA, IL 60502
July 5, 2021 I contacted the postal service
July 17, 2021, 7:57 pm Arrived at USPS Regional Facility CHICAGO IL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER
July 19, 2021 Received a response from the Postal Service saying that he issue was resolved on July 17 and the package was waiting for a flight assignment
July 21, 2021 In Transit to Next Facility Your package is moving within the USPS network and is on track to be delivered to its final destination. It is currently in transit to the next facility.
July 20, 2021 I opened another complaint with the USPS they acknowledge receipt (not automated email response) and would investigate.
July 25, 2021 Still waiting

I have pictures and prices listed for both Murphy and Common Sense fasteners at https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/in ... yard-goods The Murphys are the correct way to go.

Great website, Mike ! Thanks

I've had very good luck over the years buying original old stock fasteners at Hershey.