MTFCA Forum

It’s time for me to consider the intake manifold for my Akron-Hed project... I’ve considered almost every currently available manifold as a donor to be cut up and modified, and nothing seems to align with the look that I want.

I am going to run 2 of my new Winfield S-B downdrafts... and want to run a plenum style intake manifold. I really like the shape and look of the Winfield manifolds for the Model A’s... but would be a ton of work to narrow to fit the Akron-Hed, change the mounting flanges, cap the single carb flange, and add 2 B inlet flanges. So I began to design what I want. I considered machining it in pieces and welding together, but have had issues with broken welds on aluminum manifolds before. Time to consider casting. I found a relatively local foundry that will 3D print sand instead of building a pattern for a one off part.

I know there are only a few of these Akron-Hed’s out there... but if you are interested in one of these intake manifolds... now is your chance. These may fit other make overheads, but I make no claim as to fitment. Manifold will have 1.500” diameter runners, 9.438” centerline between ports, 2.750” bolt spacing on port flanges, and Winfield S-B carb flanges 5.000” apart. Minor changes to the design could also be made to accommodate other head configurations...

A little sand... a bit of strategically placed glue... and taaaa daaaaa! An intake manifold! Some machine work required...

Well, how cool is that?

VERY IMPRESSIVE!

I’ve done some casting where I 3d print the object in PLA and then “investment cast” using the traditional materials and then burn out and fuse the ceramic and then pour the metal and then break the ceramic. Both ways work.
All the best!

Just thinking that we need to get the 2 up 2 down crank and cam to you!

Just what the heck can't you make, Kevin ?????

with just a quick measurement , looks like it would fit a BB Rajo .

The port spacing is the same as the flat head, and I hear most overheads are the same too. I will have an extra manifold laying around... that is unless I botch the machine work

I know where there is a Rajo to experiment on. Can it be turned upside down?

Andy

AndyClary wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:02 pm

Can it be turned upside down?

The manifold wouldn’t care which way it was mounted... but I’m not sure the plenum design would perform well as an updraft. The air might loose velocity and allow the fuel drop out...?

So lets remove the guessing:

4 valve Rajo- port centers are 9.437. Flange Bolts are 2.687 port diameter is 1.25"

B Rajo- port centers are 9.375. Flange Bolts are 2.937 (original head- not Chaffins)

Quick measurements of a Chaffin Rajo. Intake ports 9.470 center to center. Flange bolt width 2.75 and 1.250 ports.
Those would be in inches.
Andy

YEAH BABY!!!

Beauty! A symphony of polished castings!!

Southfork Creek wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:01 pm

Beauty! A symphony of polished castings!!

I don’t intend to mislead anybody... but the only castings in this pic is the iron cylinder head and the intake manifold. None of which are polished... yet!. All the rest is machined from solid bar. Details here for those who haven’t seen my carburetor or Akron-Hed posts;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14905&p=177960&hilit=Playin#p177960

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11172&p=84063&hilit=Akron#p84063

Isn’t the float bowl supposed to be forward, or is that just a legend and they don’t care.

Andy

AndyClary wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:24 pm

Isn’t the float bowl supposed to be forward, or is that just a legend and they don’t care.

Andy

I dug into the bowl design while pondering the manifold, and found that the fuel would need to slosh at almost 45 degrees to flood out either of the spray bar circuits. That means a 1G change of direction. Arguably the greatest forces applied to a vehicle’s direction are during braking, turning being the second greatest force potential, and acceleration the least. With the bowl facing forward, the fuel would slosh into the bowl during braking, and cause the needle to seal tightly, and have virtually no chance of flooding out the motor. So yes, typically the Winfield’s are mounted with the bowls facing forward.

I figure that the carbs are resilient enough to handle a T speedster in almost any orientation... as long as the bowls are not facing the rear as this would be the most likely to flood during braking. These carbs were raced on high bank circle tracks and dirt roads for a generation, I have a feelin they’ll perform just fine turned sideways

And if they don’t... I guess I’ll have to cut up my new manifold and spread the carbs out a bit further

1938 Riley over head V-8, 4 Winfield carbs all facing the “wrong” way. This photo is from Speedy Bill’s museum, so it probably never ran this way. But Kevin’s flooding theory sounds about right.

Are the manifolds available from Non-Pharis Metals, a subsidiary of Pharis Metals?

Andy

Forgot the picture.

Andy

Hmmmmm... Non Pharis Metals... Has a ring to it, but I can barely account for myself as it is...

Look y’all... no clamps!
Gonna look real nice all polished up!

Came across this backwards Winfield pic from Speedy Bills Museum today and thought bout you Andy...

Turns out the new manifold does look nice all polished up...

So...…. regarding float bowl orientation, I thought I would browse thru my Winfield Carburetor manual for any bowl orientation information. The manual covers installing carbs on pretty much every automobile made from 1925-1931. I found two instances where the float bowl was to be installed to the rear- 1) Model T Fords and 2) '24-'27 Oldsmobile. All others clearly stated the float bowl was to be installed to the front. So, draw your own conclusions from that.

They probably looked at two things with the T application. One-they needed to clear the generator. Two-they probably drove a Model T and figured it wouldn’t brake hard enough to slosh any fuel.

Andy

Truly awesome as usual. You make the best stuff.

You clearly read better than I do Dan, I looked thru my catalog for some time a while back and couldn’t find anything regarding bowl orientation. One would think that if the bowl HAD to be facing front, there would be a warning on every page...?! Thanks for the info Dan, I’m dedicated now anyway... but it’s reassuring

Manifold and carbs look great. Eastwood makes a chrome powder coating for the head.

Andy

After all the time, money, and effort... seems like money green would be the right color to paint the head

Kevin Pharis wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:27 pm

Came across this backwards Winfield pic from Speedy Bills Museum today and thought bout you Andy...

4D237B0F-0832-4B97-AC31-5D74EB5332EC.png

Just noticed that the model A water pump is installed upside down too...

Pretty sure you can't turn em over- must be a special pump or? The studs are closer together at the top on a stock head so...……..

Maybe I’m just trying to convince myself that sideways carbs are goin to be OK...
And this one just posted by Hank Lee in the classifieds. Maybe he can give us some insight as to how the carbs ran on this shiny chebby. These carbs are certainly far enough apart to mount with the bowls facing forward

Probably depends on how fast your engine stand will go!

Adding to my collection of “wrong” mounted Winfields...

Kevin I have 2-3 thousand miles on this set up my only issue is that the int. jets have to run a good bit richer than normal otherwise I get a lean pop back on take off and or accelerating around a very sharp turn both left and right when it involves a heavy load ie steep pull. These are pretty small carbs though (AA). Great looking manifold by the way hope to see you on a run soon Scott Hills

Thanks for the feed back Scott! Lovin that Roof 16 Model C! My SR-C has a lean cough as well when the motors hot. I could adjust the accelerator pump, but found the pump housing barely hanging by the last screw last summer. Apparently I’m falling behind on maintenance these days...

It might be worth checking that your air bleeds are the correct size. Also check that the intermediate compensator is correct for the AA size (A and AA are interchangeable). There are a few variations of compensators, I would check that both intermediate compensators and air bleed sizes match (regardless of size). Float level also decides the volume in the accelerator well, might wanna check that too...

With all the excitement of firing off my new carb for the first time... I completely glazed over the fact that my dad had mounted his carb “backwards” when he put the Fronty in a while ago

It’s been a while but found another sideways Winfield installation over on the HAMB