MTFCA Forum

Is there any laws stipulating that a car 94 years old with no brake lights, blinkers, tail lights, or seatbelts are legal? I have asked a couple of police officers, and they said that it was fine considering the age of the car. Anyone looked into this?

Laws and rules vary greatly from one state to the next. However, most states adhere to a "grandfather clause" either officially or unofficially. The "grandfather clause" basically says that a car is only required to have what was required at the time the car was manufactured. However, sometimes and some places, there are exceptions. Here in Califunny for instance, one exception is that ALL automobiles regardless of age are 'required' to have two rear view mirrors, one of which must be mounted on the left side outside.

Ok, thanks!

Here on the left. The law requires 1 tail & brake light(can be separate units), head lights, rear(side) mirror, horn & seat belts for minors. Signals for turning can be by hand. Pre 1978 dont require 2 mirrors.

Some states, including Califunny, also may have a written law giving a specific year for certain equipment issues before which they are still not required. While the general grandfather clause may still matter, in Califunny, quite a number of things are specifically named as automobiles built before 1939. Usually, someone with a vehicle built after 1939 but well into the 1970s may ignore the later requirement on their (1950-something something?) and get by with it. However, in those details, one does so at their own risk.
Also, smog equipment rules in Califunny are currently locked with a cutoff between 1975 and 1976.
Also of interest, in Califunny. I am not certain of the exact year? However I am fairly sure it is either 1921 or 1922? Any automobile manufactured after the year is required today to have headlamps whether it had them or not originally. Any automobile built before the year, is not required to have headlamps. I live off an old highway that is considered high risk, and requires headlamps to be turned on at any time of day for almost twenty miles. Because the model T racing car I used to have was registered as a 1919 (chassis was pre-1920), I was not required to have headlamps, and the Highway Patrol office told me to just "drive safely" when in the "Daytime Headlamps Zone".


And a bit of advice? (Not sure if it is good or bad advice?) Sometimes, some things, it is better to not rock the boat by asking too much?

In Texas, original equipment such as lights, horns, stoplights, etc. must be in place and working properly. Added accessories, such as wipers, signals, added tail lights, auxilliary brakes, etc must be in working order. I don't know of any legal restrictions related to freeway access, but common sense ought to rule out trying to run a Model T or other early car in rush hour freeway traffic. I would consider adding some sort of headlight equipment to your car if you have to use a dangerous stretch of road. If you're moving slower than the general traffic flow on any roadway, you need to be VISIBLE to others.

Let’s face it guys, rules are rules, whether you are aware of them or not, but rules are made to be broken. If you are driving an old car like we do, and you are using hand signals that 90% of the modern drivers are not familiar with or don’t give a hoot about old cars will give you the California finger salut or just simply run you over. You may be totally legal with your equipment but DEAD wrong if you tangle with some know it all that doesn’t like your car.
It irritates me if someone driving in front of me and the directional or brake lights or both are not working. Same with us driving in front of them. At least put on a brake light in the back so they are aware of your intentions but make it so it can be removed at a gudgeing or car show and reinstalled in a minute for the drive home. Our little old cars are very fragile against the modern beasts and it is not worth your health or life to be insistently right. Don’t think of it as giving up your rights or pride, think of it as staying alive and being able to continue having fun safely.
Just my ideas.
Frank

And sometimes questions are just best left un-asked!

There are all kinds of people. I usually pull over to let the faster traffic pass. One thing I don't like though is some people in the next lane will slow down to take pictures or ask me about my car and then I come to the end of the pull over lane and have to merge with the main road. If I have to slow down or stop because I run out of lane, I will be going slower than I was when I pulled over. I would rather wait till I get to the top of the hill to pull over, because then I can get back up to speed faster.
I try to find routes where I don't have to use freeways and avoid driving at night if possible.
Norm

In Pennsylvania, the antique license plate exempts the car from annual inspection. And if the vehicle is only operated during daylight, the car only needs to have its original lighting equipment. If it is to be operated at dark, the lighting need to be upgraded.
Tom

A colleague of mine moved to the US from France this month. He is searching for an old F100 or F150 as a weekend project. He asked me what days he would be allowed to drive an old truck. Apparently, French law limits the days that old cars are allowed on the road. He was pleased to learn there were no restrictions here.

Massachusetts, and most if not all other states require at least one brake light. If your state doesn't - put one on anyway. Without a brake light it's not a question of if you will be rear-ended, but when. Safety glass in the windshield is a really good idea as well. As to the rest of the stuff, I wouldn't bother. There was little if any thought to the crashworthiness of older cars.
I also agree with those who suggest that you don't ask too much. It is far easier to beg forgiveness then it is to ask permission,

In Austria (Europe) you have no chance to get the car onto the street without having at least:
Direction lights (orange color)
sidelights (2x front = white, 2x rear = red)
braking lights (2x red)
Headlights (low/high beam, or low/high brightness as my Lizzy has)
And no carbide lights at all.

So you can imagine.... I installed the sidelights and front direction lights inside the oil sidelights to hide them.

Legality ? How can anyone ponder such a thing when the sheer embarrassment
and humiliation of driving such an ugly old turd should kill you !

I talked to several of the local police officers in the area before I purchased my 1914 model T. They told me about the grandfather laws and said legally I would be fine the way it was, but I would be stupid not to make some improvements to keep myself alive. They all said I had to have brake lights...the more and brighter the better. They said I needed turn signals because no one will know what your are doing if you use hand signals and you will be run into. Basically, they told me the more I could do to make it like a modern car less likely I would be run over because people expect cars to perform a certain way and a Model T does not. I heeded the warning and have added brake lights, turn signals and put LED lights into my headlights.
The good news is I did it in a "Hidden" way so the wires and switches are hidden and the lights are almost completely hidden....most people don't even notice the newer lights on the car unless they are operating. I probably could have hidden them more....but I am happy the way it came out.

I agree with most of the above post, but I have never had an issue with hand signals. Even the non-car folk recognize the T as an oddity and most are careful around it. My big fear is being rear-ended while cruising at 35 mph. I have two bright LED magnetic flashing lights on the back of the T when I'm driving it.

I suppose all these additional lights could be helpful, but many drivers who have signals, don't use them, and ignore them on cars that do. I do have a bright red flashing LED light on the back of my car, but I believe the best advice for driving a Model T, (or any car for that matter) is to drive as if you are invisible.

Here in New Brunswick (Canada) the "grandfather" rule generally applies so that automobiles are only required to have whatever features were originally on the car (stop lights, signal lights, wipers, seat belts, etc). However recently passed legislation requires any car with out daytime running lights must drive with headlights on.

Anyone who has driven in St. Louis will appreciate this.

Maryland considers any vehicle that cannot exceed the posted speed limit signs illegal to be driving on that road.

The law was aimed at golf carts and mopeds, but does not exclude antique autos.

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:18 pm

And sometimes questions are just best left un-asked!

It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission!

Michael I agree! That was the subliminal message in my post! Thanks.

Idaho - "49-906. TAIL LAMPS. (1) Every motor vehicle.....shall be equipped with at least one (1) tail lamp mounted on the rear..... Every mentioned vehicle.....manufactured or assembled after December 31, 1955, shall be equipped with at least two (2) tail lamps mounted on the rear."
"49-919. SIGNAL LAMPS AND SIGNAL DEVICES. (1) Any motor vehicle may be equipped and when required under this chapter shall be equipped with stop lamps....." Same for turn signals. Previous version specified the same 1955 exclusion. "when required under this chapter" may imply that.
FWIW
Rich

Michael , I have that tattooed on the inside of my eyelids. My fav!

I am still a firm believer that most people don't understand old cars and the more you can make your old car act like a modern car the safer you will be. I have a 1930 Model A that has brighter headlights, tail lights and turn signals than many modern cars (All LED lights), but when the lights are off you can not tell they are not original.
I have a 1914 Model T and I am working to do the same thing....when the lights are off you probably will not notice them, but when they are on it helps other drivers know that I am stopping or turning.

bdtutton wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:37 pm

I am still a firm believer that most people don't understand old cars and the more you can make your old car act like a modern car the safer you will be. I have a 1930 Model A that has brighter headlights, tail lights and turn signals than many modern cars (All LED lights), but when the lights are off you can not tell they are not original.
I have a 1914 Model T and I am working to do the same thing....when the lights are off you probably will not notice them, but when they are on it helps other drivers know that I am stopping or turning.

AND drive with the lights on in the daytime so people can see you! Today's cars have "daytime running lights" for that purpose, always had headlights to use instead.

Don't get me wrong I have a battery powered flashing light in every one of my T's in case I get caught with out lights or break down on the side of the road. I have spent the last 20 years working on firetrucks and many times repairing damage from collisions both in response and on scene with full code 3 lights on when someone didnt see it and ran into it. You still have to drive like you are invisible.
Craig.

Calif law is sometimes difficult to interpret, but if you have a car that qualifies for Horseless Carriage plates you do not need a brake light IF the car did not come with one! Conversely you MUST have a Drivers Side rear view mirror, regardless if the car came with one or not. The laws are different from state to state and just because the first line of the law makes one statement the exceptions may be referenced below or send you down a rabbit hole in another section. I used to annoy Calif DMV because I had the manual. In CA you can buy the current manual in any office.