Toeboard Modifications?
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Topic author - Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Last Name: O'Neil
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1923 Runabout
- Location: Klamath Falls, OR
- MTFCI Number: 18018
- Board Member Since: 2005
Toeboard Modifications?
It seems like I'm needing to remove the floorboards fairly frequently for lubrication and service. On the '23 this is simple & very quick. The '14 is a different story. The floorboards can be removed fairly easily but the top toeboard is another story. It is trapped by the speedo cable. I understand from reading the Club publication that reattaching the speedo cable has a trick to it and that if done improperly the cable and possibly the speedo itself might be wrecked.
I'm going to have to remove the cable to free the toeboard but I would like to minimize the need to do this EVERY time I need to clear the decks for work in that area. Looking things over it seems like a saw cut could be made that would remove enough wood to allow the board to slip out. This might leave to board weak so a metal plate could be screwed over the area. The wood section removed by the sawcut could even be screwed back on to provide some insulation.
Future removals would require removing the four wood screws but not the cable.
In the pictures, the red area is the proposed saw cut, the grey area is the metal patch plate.
What do you think? Has anyone done this already or have a better idea? Is the cable really not that hard to reinstall? If so, there might be no need for any of the modifications.
Paul
I'm going to have to remove the cable to free the toeboard but I would like to minimize the need to do this EVERY time I need to clear the decks for work in that area. Looking things over it seems like a saw cut could be made that would remove enough wood to allow the board to slip out. This might leave to board weak so a metal plate could be screwed over the area. The wood section removed by the sawcut could even be screwed back on to provide some insulation.
Future removals would require removing the four wood screws but not the cable.
In the pictures, the red area is the proposed saw cut, the grey area is the metal patch plate.
What do you think? Has anyone done this already or have a better idea? Is the cable really not that hard to reinstall? If so, there might be no need for any of the modifications.
Paul
The man with a watch always knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
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- MTFCA Number: 51486
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
You might want to remove the original board and use it to make a pattern, then cut a repro board and modify it to accomodate the cable. The repro could be "distressed" to match the rest of the floor and the original piece stored.
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- First Name: George
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
- Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
- MTFCA Number: 115
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- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
The Speedo cable on my ‘14 Ford Special runs along inside the firewall. So I just cut a circular notch out of the forward edge of that forward floorboard.
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.
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- Posts: 864
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- First Name: Erik
- Last Name: Johnson
- Location: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Factory 1914 floorboards have a notch in them to accommodate to the speedometer cable so you don't need to disconnect it in order to remove the floorboard.
You have some mickey mouse going on as it is such as the large notch in the floorboard to accommodate the 1919-22 dash shield so I wouldn't get hung up on cutting the notch for the speedo cable.
Also, If your car had a "Ford special" speedometer or a regular Stewart speedometer that was correct for the car, the back of the speedo would be flush against the firewall with the cable coming straight down from the side of speedo housing, not a speedo mounted on an angle bracket and an angled cable mount.
You have some mickey mouse going on as it is such as the large notch in the floorboard to accommodate the 1919-22 dash shield so I wouldn't get hung up on cutting the notch for the speedo cable.
Also, If your car had a "Ford special" speedometer or a regular Stewart speedometer that was correct for the car, the back of the speedo would be flush against the firewall with the cable coming straight down from the side of speedo housing, not a speedo mounted on an angle bracket and an angled cable mount.
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- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Paul, the problem is likely the speedo head. Usually it is not mounted at such an angle, and the cable roughly follows the firewall. Thus, all that is needed is the afore mentioned slot in the top edge of the floorboard. If your top floorboard fitted more closely to the firewall, as it should, your problem would be even worse.
Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.
Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.
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Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Click on this link to see a photo of an early 1914 with a speedo.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/174792.html
The speedometer cable slot in a factory 1914 floorboard is actually deep and the hole in the rubber floor mat is offset from the firewall. Also, the hole in the floor mat has a corresponding slit perpendicular to the firewall for easy removal in case you don't notice it in the photo.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/174792.html
The speedometer cable slot in a factory 1914 floorboard is actually deep and the hole in the rubber floor mat is offset from the firewall. Also, the hole in the floor mat has a corresponding slit perpendicular to the firewall for easy removal in case you don't notice it in the photo.
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Topic author - Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Last Name: O'Neil
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1923 Runabout
- Location: Klamath Falls, OR
- MTFCI Number: 18018
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
I did not understand that the dash shield was a later model. The speedo is a 1912 model and works fine. The existing floorboards are very old and have all sorts of dings, holes & even a patch. It does fit somewhat better with the lower panels in place.
I would have no problem with buying or making a new set to go with the proper dash shield.
Paul
I would have no problem with buying or making a new set to go with the proper dash shield.
Paul
The man with a watch always knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:28 am
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: Parker
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914, 1925
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Paul,
If you choose to go with the slot as discussed, the speedometer cable slot in
my original July 1913 top floor board is 3" x 3/4" centered 4" from the right end of the board.
This is directly above the factory hole provided in the splash shield where a grommet protects
the speedometer cable and would work nicely with your beautiful speedometer as you have it.
To avoid breaking chain links (the trick you referred to) when removing and replacing
cable to speedometer head:
Before reattaching cable to head,
Jack up right front wheel (with swivel and road gear) and spin wheel as if car were moving forward.
The chain links will now be "flipped", oriented, in the proper running direction.
Seat cable into speedometer head and tighten the knurled cable nut to the speedometer head*.
*You can move the position of the speedometer head drive slot with your fingers to line up slot
and seat in the cable .
This avoids "pushing" the chain links which leads to the breaking problem.
If you choose to go with the slot as discussed, the speedometer cable slot in
my original July 1913 top floor board is 3" x 3/4" centered 4" from the right end of the board.
This is directly above the factory hole provided in the splash shield where a grommet protects
the speedometer cable and would work nicely with your beautiful speedometer as you have it.
To avoid breaking chain links (the trick you referred to) when removing and replacing
cable to speedometer head:
Before reattaching cable to head,
Jack up right front wheel (with swivel and road gear) and spin wheel as if car were moving forward.
The chain links will now be "flipped", oriented, in the proper running direction.
Seat cable into speedometer head and tighten the knurled cable nut to the speedometer head*.
*You can move the position of the speedometer head drive slot with your fingers to line up slot
and seat in the cable .
This avoids "pushing" the chain links which leads to the breaking problem.
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Topic author - Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Last Name: O'Neil
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1923 Runabout
- Location: Klamath Falls, OR
- MTFCI Number: 18018
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Thanks Kenneth, I value your instructions for reinstalling the speedo cable. Should that big gear on the wheel be lubed? I was concerned that greasing it would attract dust & road grit turning it into low grade grinding compound.
I need to remove the toeboard and will see about doing the mods as outlined.
Paul
I need to remove the toeboard and will see about doing the mods as outlined.
Paul
The man with a watch always knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
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- Posts: 229
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:28 am
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: Parker
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914, 1925
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Paul,
I wipe the road gear and fiber gear off with an old rag and grease them
very lightly with just a little touch out of the swivel grease cap.
Like you say, they pick up road dust and no use to sling grease on wheel/spokes.
I like to set the fiber gear teeth "up" just a little so it doesn't run too tight in
the road gear. Easier on the swivel and the fiber gear I have on the '14 now has
8,000 miles on it running against a Stewart 1322.
I wipe the road gear and fiber gear off with an old rag and grease them
very lightly with just a little touch out of the swivel grease cap.
Like you say, they pick up road dust and no use to sling grease on wheel/spokes.
I like to set the fiber gear teeth "up" just a little so it doesn't run too tight in
the road gear. Easier on the swivel and the fiber gear I have on the '14 now has
8,000 miles on it running against a Stewart 1322.
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Topic author - Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Last Name: O'Neil
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1923 Runabout
- Location: Klamath Falls, OR
- MTFCI Number: 18018
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Over the weekend I had a go at the toe board mod. The speedo drive came off cleanly and was somewhat wet with grease. I'm glad it wasn't dry. As soon as the cable was loose the toe board came off and the speedo drive reattached. This turned out to be much easier than I had feared. The drive portion of the speedo head stood proud of the housing and with the help of a flashlight was easily adjusted to fit the drive key in the cable. I jacked up the front wheel and spun it then watched the speedo needle register 3 mph. There was no noise or sign of mechanical distress so I feel I probably got it back together correctly.
The floor boards show much damage & many repairs. Someone had thought of using patch panels before I did! I ran the toe board through the table saw to cut a channel for the speedo cable and got a bit enthusiastic with the saw but nothing that can't be patched up with putty and another patch panel.
Someone thought that this is the wrong dash shield. There is a better picture at the bottom here, is this certainly wrong? How would the correct one look different?
Paul
The floor boards show much damage & many repairs. Someone had thought of using patch panels before I did! I ran the toe board through the table saw to cut a channel for the speedo cable and got a bit enthusiastic with the saw but nothing that can't be patched up with putty and another patch panel.
Someone thought that this is the wrong dash shield. There is a better picture at the bottom here, is this certainly wrong? How would the correct one look different?
Paul
The man with a watch always knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
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- Posts: 1128
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:51 pm
- First Name: Keith
- Last Name: Townsend
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- Location: Gresham, Orygun
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- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
The metal dash shield for 1914 would be flat steel and not shaped like a pie pan. Looks like you have a little more work to do.
: ^ )
Keith
: ^ )
Keith
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Topic author - Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Last Name: O'Neil
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1923 Runabout
- Location: Klamath Falls, OR
- MTFCI Number: 18018
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
If the dash shield is flat, the toe board will be flat across the front also?
Paul
Paul
The man with a watch always knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
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Topic author - Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Last Name: O'Neil
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1923 Runabout
- Location: Klamath Falls, OR
- MTFCI Number: 18018
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
Any idea why someone might fit a later dash shield? This motor is later from 1919 with a starter. The dash shield would not seem to interfere with anything I can see.
Paul
Paul
The man with a watch always knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
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- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
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- Location: orange, ca
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- Posts: 3873
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
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- Last Name: karvaly
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- Location: orange, ca
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Re: Toeboard Modifications?
What he had laying around. Didnt matter to him. Frankin Ford by Woody C.
He built a pretty, early car for serious touring.
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Topic author - Posts: 391
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Last Name: O'Neil
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1923 Runabout
- Location: Klamath Falls, OR
- MTFCI Number: 18018
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Toeboard Modifications?
If that be the case, there would be no issue with getting the correct parts & putting it together now to be more like a '14 should be. My concern was that something in the later motor/transmission might interfere and that the later parts were added by necessity.
Paul
Paul
The man with a watch always knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.