MTFCA Forum

Hey Everyone
I finally got to the point with my new to me 1915 Touring that I feel comfortable driving it without thinking what to do. My car has a KC Warford and up until today I was driving in 2 or standard gearing at speeds around 30 mph. I dropped it into 3 or overdrive and got my T up to about 45 and to be honest that speed was a bit scary so I backed off to under 40. My question is what would an experienced driver consider a safe speed when using a KC Wardford in overdrive in a good driving condition T?. Also when I shifted into overdrive I could hear a different whining from the overdrive. It did not alarm me but it was different and I wanted to know if that is normal or is something wrong with my overdrive? Thanks again for all your comments.

Ron

I wait until near 35 mph to shift into 3rd and flat roads only, mostly running in 2nd… top speed in any case is 35 to 38 mph. Works very well but still trying to get used to the short shift pattern, just will take time.
John
Oscoda Michigan

Nunsio1 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:33 am

I wait until near 35 mph to shift into 3rd and flat roads only, mostly running in 2nd… top speed in any case is 35 to 38 mph. Works very well but still trying to get used to the short shift pattern, just will take time.
John
Oscoda Michigan

John
Do you get a different sound from your KC Warford when in 3rd or overdrive? Not sure what was done to my engine over the years but at 45 in 3rd the car felt like it would do much more in speed.....it was me who would not go any faster.

Ron

Warford not too noisy in 3rd, engine rpm drops some, but a original non balanced engine & drivetrain is noisy anyway. I am using 3.6 axle ratio w/ 80-90 gear lube in warford. I have had mine 41 - 42 mph, but the wood wheels hold speed down, balance beads smooth things out also.
John

A 10-tooth pinion gear is a great combo with a Warford. That gives you a 4:1 rear gear, which makes overdrive a more useful gear without going too fast, as well as giving more power in the lower gears.

I’d advise you not to use KC Warford overdrive to increase speed to 40 MPH or more because you’re approaching the limits of steering and original brakes. I use mine to lower engine RPMs at 35 MPH max thereby extending drive train life.

A late production Model T with wire wheels and balloon tires is smooth and stable at 50 MPH on 2 lane secondary roads that are in less than ideal condition. I haven't driven an earlier car at such speeds, but I'd approach doing so with great caution. Stopping distance is an issue with any T. As for gear noise in overdrive, that's probably normal, but I'd check with the manufacterer to be sure about that and about lubrication recommendations.

The earlier production Model Ts have wood spoke wheels built up of many parts, narrower, clincher tires, higher center of gravity, more wind resistance, faster steering ratio, less robust crankshafts, and even less braking ability than the late production Ts. All of these factors point to less stability at higher road speeds. I don't think the top and windshield structure on the earlier cars were designed to cope with speeds over about 30-35 mph. Older Ts may be running cast iron pistons, plain cast iron rings, and heavier rods than later production cars.... more reasons to limit car and engine speed.

I wish I had more history on my 1915 Touring but from what I can see the body looks very original. As for mechanical I think my car was built four touring. I have the following:

KC Warford
Rear disk brakes
Modern grease fittings
12v Fuel Pump and 12 v system with 2 6v batteries (Still hand crank only)
High Compression Head
Distributor
12v alternator
Turn signals and brake lights

The above is what I can see but I have a feeling the engine was built at one time with upgrades. I am not sure of the horse power but it is without any question over 20 and may be approaching 40 horse. I have a restored 1929 Model A with a High Compression head & Mitchel OD and my 1915 Touring get up to 40mph faster than my 1929 Model A.

I'd limit road speed to 40 mph with the top down and secured and the windshield folded down. If you have 1915 style tires, you have almost no braking ability.

Warning! Stopping the wheels is not the same as stopping the car!

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:44 am

I'd limit road speed to 40 mph with the top down and secured and the windshield folded down. If you have 1915 style tires, you have almost no braking ability.

I have disk brakes on the rear and the 1915 Touring stops quite well. I give lots of distance but never have felt that the brakes were lacking in anyway. I do feel the limitations on the T are around 45mph as my car did not feel as stable once I hit that speed but I am sure the engine could have done more. As for enjoying the car I like driving 30 to 35 mph.

This is my first Model T and if you see this Randall I am very happy with the car. You were right about the Model T being more fun than a Model A......Driving a Model T is an experience that is not like any car I have driven.

Ron

Ron, I’m just curious - OK nosey....Many years ago I sold a ‘15 depot hack to Joe Huygens in NC and have since heard he sold it to a Randall Strickland in NC who MAY have repurposed it as a touring. Same T ?

George House wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:54 pm

Ron, I’m just curious - OK nosey....Many years ago I sold a ‘15 depot hack to Joe Huygens in NC and have since heard he sold it to a Randall Strickland in NC who MAY have repurposed it as a touring. Same T ?

What town was Joe Huygens in? It looks like my car was a touring per the sate of NC since at least 1984 but I do not have history past that per the DMV.

My car with 4.50 X 21 low pressure tires will lock the rear wheels on demand. It still takes a while to stop from road speed, even under ideal conditions.

Don’t know his town Ron but our business was only about 10 years ago so.... not the same T. Thanks

George Joe still has the 15 depot I have never converted a hack to a touring or anything else,all KC warfords has a whine in overdrive that I have driven!

Speed question.
I set my T's up for performance. Done with gearing, compression, carb, Its a complete package. Front ends tight with extra axle rake 1/2" - 5/8" from the stock 3/8" My 14 roadster with stock carb hits 60, A bit disappointing but does it well with good acceleration. 3.25 gears. loves 50-55 all day. The bench mark on my less stock T's(full body) is 70.
DONT HAVE A PANIC ATTACK. I drive the appropriate speeds for road/traffic conditions/braking ability. The typical cruising speeds are 45. The motors never break a sweat. @ this low RPM. When club touring we run 35. If I need to get somewhere I can hit the freeway. Its good to have the option.(conditions carefully considered)
One can fake slow, but, you cant fake fast. Its not only flat land speed, its also hill climbing ease.

My '27 Tudor will cruise at 48 to 50 mph in OD. Runs smooth and straight at that speed.

kelly mt wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:29 am

My '27 Tudor will cruise at 48 to 50 mph in OD. Runs smooth and straight at that speed.

I am still new to my T so I am still at 35 for the most part but my car was built to be driven. I do not know the HP but it's well over 20 .....I had it to 47 a few weeks back and it had a lot more to go but I was not ready for that.

As to the original question. Cruising speed with the Warford is the same as without. The bulk of performance accessories for the Model T are to improve hill climbing where the lack of power is really evident. What the Warford does is to give you an overdrive to lower engine rpm. With the lower rpm comes less wear and tear, noise and better fuel economy.

Cruising speed is a package deal. If you’re motor is worn out, low speed. If you’re motor runs great but your wheels/tires are junk, low speed. If you can’t stop, low speed. Everything perfect, speed determined by the nut holding the wheel.

Andy

AndyClary wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:18 am

As to the original question. Cruising speed with the Warford is the same as without. The bulk of performance accessories for the Model T are to improve hill climbing where the lack of power is really evident. What the Warford does is to give you an overdrive to lower engine rpm. With the lower rpm comes less wear and tear, noise and better fuel economy.

Cruising speed is a package deal. If you’re motor is worn out, low speed. If you’re motor runs great but your wheels/tires are junk, low speed. If you can’t stop, low speed. Everything perfect, speed determined by the nut holding the wheel.

Andy

kelly mt wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:29 am

My '27 Tudor will cruise at 48 to 50 mph in OD. Runs smooth and straight at that speed.

I’m with Andy on this one. My mostly-stock, iron-pistoned, “16” Touring cruises at at 48+ mph without an overdrive, smooth and straight on the flat and level. I believe that taller gears might even slow it down by taking the engine out of the powerband. Hill climbing ability, top speed, economy, predictably safe handling, reliability, originality… it’s all a balancing act. Figuring out how to achieve the balance that fits you best is a lot of the fun in this hobby. Just remember that your optimal balance of these and other attributes is probably not my optimal balance. Luckily, with a little civility, there is room here for just about all of us.

Eric