New Day

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TXGOAT2
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New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:40 pm

Can any kind of lubricant be used with a New Day timer?

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Oldav8tor
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Re: New Day

Post by Oldav8tor » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:47 pm

Tip top timers sells some that is actually supposed to extend the life of a New Day.
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Re: New Day

Post by DanTreace » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:56 pm

Tim

I don't think Hutch recommends that Extreme Pressure Lube for the New Day. The New Day runs better without any oil, vasoline or heavy grease. The flapper face of an Anderson can benefit from that lube.

The wear of the brush against the harder bronze contacts will be normal, the brush can't last forever :)

Just remove the timer cup and clean it out from time to time to remove dust from the brush wear. Any lube will mix with the wear 'dust' and make a compound that could cause contact issues and result in a miss.
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Re: New Day

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:34 pm

I used regular oil with new day timer but I found it need to be cleaning up after 500 miles with acetone and 200 grit sandpaper... no matter if used oil or not. That procedure took me less than 10 minutes and the engine continue to run really smooth. The quantity of oil is my finger dip on oil, so very few amount. I used that way many years without any issue. It may not optimal but it work really well for me. I also use the I-Timer in my other T and I check it once a year and I have no issue with it too. Hope that help.
Super Mario Bross ;)

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Re: New Day

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:08 pm

I have a reddish brown New Day on the first T I bought in 1989. It is still there and I don't use any lubricant on it. It has run for 10 years on 6 volt battery, then after I fixed the magneto, it has run on magneto for at least 20 years. Been on many tours and never had a problem with it. Only clean it when I have some reason to remove it such as engine work etc. They are almost indestructable. I had another one on another T but the brush was worn on an angle, and I replaced it with Anderson. Also no problems with the Anderson.
Norm


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Re: New Day

Post by John kuehn » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:16 pm

Since the New Days came out and were a really good after market timer every concoction know to man has been used in them. Well not every concoction but a bunch! My Father had a 26 Roadster and he and more than a few guys used a slight coat of Vaseline. Others later used a light coat of lubriplate. Another came a little later that was a mixture of STP with light weight oil. Then there are those that don’t use anything other than wiping them out every so often. The STP mixed with light oil seems to work pretty well for me.

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Re: New Day

Post by George House » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:39 pm

I wouldn’t advise “any kind of lubricant” because whale oil seems to attract cats.
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people 🤪


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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:07 pm

Looks like another job for Marvel Mystery Oil!

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Re: New Day

Post by Oldav8tor » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:54 pm

Regarding the "lube" from Tip Top Timers I probably shouldn't have spoken as my information was second hand. A friend recently bought a New Day from Tip Top and told me about it. Supposedly a one time application that makes the "plastic" part of the housing wear better. What it is I have no idea so unless someone has more info please consider my comments deleted. FWIW - I have never lubed my New Day. It has 4500 + miles on it and I have cleaned it maybe four times. When cleaning I run a 2.5 inch disc with some fine sandpaper attached over the surface using an electric drill and then blow the dust out. A quick wipe with a rag dipped in Lacquer thinner and I'm done.
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Re: New Day

Post by Dallas Landers » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:40 pm

I use a very thin layer of vasoline around inside the cup on my new Day timer. Not on contact surface. Just to catch the dust. Right or wrong it works for me. Mine doesnt like any oil on contacts.


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Re: New Day

Post by speedytinc » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:02 am

I use no lube on the brush, but, I NEVER run the copper or brass brush. See too many chewed up. I make the brush out of a carbon generator brush on a re-machined used body.
The first one I set up on a very high mileage driver lasted 2 years then started to miss from wear. New carbon. Good as new with no wear to the contact surfaces.

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Re: New Day

Post by TWrenn » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:10 am

Here's my "beef" about the "new New Day"...this flimsy brush...had to open it up every 200 miles due to poor performance on my Fordor and clean and sand the inside of the timer. Got fed up and found a TW timer and no problems since. Luckily I have enough spare brushes for my TW's for a while. RIP Tony, you had a great product!
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Re: New Day

Post by Original Smith » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:08 pm

I don't believe the brush pictured above is a genuine New Day brush. The brush for an original is not that wide.


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Re: New Day

Post by speedytinc » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:26 pm

TWrenn wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:10 am
Here's my "beef" about the "new New Day"...this flimsy brush...had to open it up every 200 miles due to poor performance on my Fordor and clean and sand the inside of the timer. Got fed up and found a TW timer and no problems since. Luckily I have enough spare brushes for my TW's for a while. RIP Tony, you had a great product!
Convert this brush to carbon. Timer wear problem gone.


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Re: New Day

Post by John kuehn » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:47 pm

The brush shown in the picture doesn’t look like an original brush. The originals I have have a slightly smaller brush end. The worn out ones I have the brushes aren’t cocked but very little. I don’t know if that would make a difference but to much brush movement would seem to wear more and be erratic.


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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:43 pm

I found a problem with one of the coils. They all look good, but the moving contact on the blue steel vibrating plate is missing entirely on one of them. I put in a spare coil and it still doesn't run as smooth on battery as it should, but is OK when warmed up. It runs pretty good on magneto. The timer it has been running is well-worn, with a short, cocked brush and wear on the canotact face of the contact face. I put a different (good used) timer on it the other day, and it ran great until I got the car out on the road. At road speed, it ran ragged and would pop out the carburetor once in a while, which is abnormal for this car. It may be that the contact point came off at that time. The used timer looks like a quality piece. The rotor is copper plated and the brush is in good shape. The contact face in the housing part has some wear. The actual brush looks like brass, and it has a "cap" of a silver material on the contact end. The silver material about the thickness of a dime, and it looks factory. I put a new (Tip Top?) Timer on the car yesterday, and it didn't run any better. I now suspect the coil issue may have a lot to do with the poor performance.


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Re: New Day

Post by MichaelPawelek » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:45 pm

George House wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:39 pm
I wouldn’t advise “any kind of lubricant” because whale oil seems to attract cats.
Come on George! The only whales you have ever seen so far inland in your part of Texas are rolling through the local drive thru! 😊


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Re: New Day

Post by Original Smith » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:53 pm

I have several NORS New Day timers in the original boxes. The one pictured above is not original.


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Re: New Day

Post by Tom_Carnegie » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:17 am

For the record, the brush pictured in Tim Wrenn's post is NOT a brush supplied with the Tip Top Timer New Day that is now in production.


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Re: New Day

Post by Alan Long » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:35 am

As you never lubricate the brushes on the Generator and Starter Motor neither should you on that style of Timer.
In my opinion it’s the same situation. You never lubricate the Rotor or Distributor Cap on later cars.
Others may disagree.
Alan in Western Australia


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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:30 am

Oil is usually bad news on electrical contacts. Roller timers seem to be an exception. I mentioned finding a coil problem. I replaced that coil with a spare. The car ran fine for about 3 miles and then began to run ragged with an occasional pop out the carburetor. It was a fairly warm afternoon, and I drove the car about 20 miles while feeling out the timing, carb adjustment, etc. with no improvement. I stopped a couple of times to fiddle with the wiring and look for any issues. The problem seeems to be heat related. The car does not overheat, but the farther I'd go, the worse it ran. I parked it overnight and the next day I put some of the black plastic wire loom material over the fuel line and wrapped that loosely with aluminum foil. I did not touch the timer, wiring, coils, etc. I started the car and it ran fine. I went out on the road and drove as before for about 20 miles. The car ran almost perfectly the entire time, with only one pop through the carb. It was a little cooler than the day before, but not much, and the route included a long climb. That seems to support an issue with fuel delivery related to high underhood temperatures. I know from experience that gasoline can percolate in a vertical section of fuel line when hot, and the rising bubbles can stop a gravity flow. That would not have been an issue in the 1920s due to the low volatility of the fuel generally available. Gasoline sold today is designed for use in closed systems that operate under positive pressure. The T system is entirely atmospheric, and depends on head pressure to deliver the fuel. On the 26/7 cars, the line is short and vertical, but is also fully exposed to underhood heat, and is located near the hot exhaust manifold. The sediment bulb and shut off do not get very hot on my car, but the metal fuel line itself does get very hot. I'm going to try the car again today during the hottest part of the day and see what happens. I left home yesterday with a full tank of gas and will do so again today.
Last edited by TXGOAT2 on Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: New Day

Post by Bill Mullins » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:06 pm

Are you using non ethanol gas .


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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:28 pm

Hi, Bill, & yes, I am using non-ethanol gas. It's advertised as 90 octane, ethanol-free. I checked the filter bowl this morning. It had a very small amount of debris in it, about enough to cover the head of a pin, and the screen was clean. Opening the shut off gave a full flow of gas.


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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:26 pm

I just got back from driving about 50-55 miles. Temperature is about 94 and climbing. The car ran very well with only one pop back at the carburetor when climbing a long hill at 35 miles into the trip at about 45 MPH. I'm about convinced that insulating the fuel line has solved the issue. The hot idle has improved also.


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Re: New Day

Post by Original Smith » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:16 am

I have a tube pictured above that Tom sells. It is intended for the Anderson style timers.


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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:23 am

Concerning fuel delivery issues in hot weather with a '26-27 T, I notice that cars with the carburetor intake air heater device had the portion of the exhaust manifold nearest the fuel line covered by the heat stove. My car doesn't have the device, and there is nothing to keep radiated manifold heat away from the fuel line. The filter bowl doesn't get very hot due to being cooled by the gasoline back in the tank. The line itself gets very hot, and once the fuel begins to percolate and restrict the flow, it probably gets hotter yet. It's supposed to be over 100 F Monday. I'll see how it performs then. Meanwhile, I'm not going to touch the ignition system.
Last edited by TXGOAT2 on Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:30 am

Original Smith wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:16 am
I have a tube pictured above that Tom sells. It is intended for the Anderson style timers.
I think the flapper and roller timers require lubrication.

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Re: New Day

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:58 pm

The New Day timer is intended to run dry. Having just finished a long trip that included a leaking cam seal, and experiencing the results of oil in the New Day timer, I will be fixing the leak to make sure the timer runs dry as expected. I also found that the carbon generator brush I adapted to fit the New Day holder did not wear well, and I will go back the the original style bronze brush. You may have found the carbon brush adequate, but that wasn't my experience.
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Re: New Day

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:41 am

My car evidently has a modern type cam seal, since the inside of the timer case stays dry. As for brushes, I think they are made of a variety of material. Some of them obviously have some metal content, like powdered bronze, mixed in with granular carbon or with graphite or with both. Others look to be a black, grainy carbon material. Starter brushes usually have the metallic look, and probably contain a higher percentage of metal to lower electrical resistance. Generator brushes carry much less current, but run all the time, while starter brushes do not, so the issue of wear is different for the two different applications.


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Re: New Day

Post by speedytinc » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:42 pm

Steve Jelf wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 11:58 pm
The New Day timer is intended to run dry. Having just finished a long trip that included a leaking cam seal, and experiencing the results of oil in the New Day timer, I will be fixing the leak to make sure the timer runs dry as expected. I also found that the carbon generator brush I adapted to fit the New Day holder did not wear well, and I will go back the the original style bronze brush. You may have found the carbon brush adequate, but that wasn't my experience.
I find the hard brushes tear up the timer contacts & insulator body & un evenly. I convert to a carbon gen brush. No more body wear. The finished body gets a fine near polish surface. When I recut the timer, I also square the outer edge. The timer fits square With no brush bounce except that possible from the cam actually moving in & out. That do happen. I front thrust the cam gear to minimize this also. Lip seal keeps it dry. I use a gauge to insure the brush & holder dont rub or over pressure the body.(enough clearance) to install. There ends up being a little carbon dust that floats to the bottom & some exits the drain hole. The only wild card is the timing gear cover. the recess has to be perpendicular to the cam. Some of this I learned on my own. Some important details came from a Montana buddy. I get excellent service & carry a spare brush in case I am out & its worn, needing replacement. Been very happy with the systems performance. I expect distributor like performance(what I am used to on my other T's) from a magneto & get it.

Thats a lot of stuff to do to insure a trouble free timer. Running a roller timer takes similar detail to attention. Centering the timer being more critical & in & out of brush not.

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