Pitman Arm Ok?
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:48 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Sundstrom
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Touring
- Location: Vulcan, MI
Pitman Arm Ok?
I was going to change out my original pitman arm with a repo to eliminate some slop. Placing side by side the new one is 1/2” closer to center of shaft and 1/2” out further to front of car. Ordered one for my year 1920 should I use?
-
- Posts: 4072
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
I think the new one you got is correct. The one you took off looks like maybe for a 26-27 because the steering column is on a different year on the lower bodies, the pitman arm would be shorter and on a different angle.
Norm
Norm
-
Topic author - Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:48 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Sundstrom
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Touring
- Location: Vulcan, MI
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
Norman, The new one is actually at a steeper angle and shorter.
I installed new one to see if there were any issues and it seems like it ok. Guess I will with new one. Thanks
I installed new one to see if there were any issues and it seems like it ok. Guess I will with new one. Thanks
-
- Posts: 4072
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
In your picture, the one closest to the camera looks like the correct one. The other one to me looks like there is wear on the ball joint, so I thought it was the old one.
Norm
Norm
-
- Posts: 663
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:15 am
- First Name: Tony
- Last Name: Bowker
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 touring
- Location: La Mesa, CA
- MTFCA Number: 32
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
The pitman arm changed over the years I have a picture showing several from when restored the 1909 Touring
Somewhere I have a picture with the dimensions of several models but I can’t find it right now.
So when someone that “that’s” the correct one, you really should state the year Somewhere I have a picture with the dimensions of several models but I can’t find it right now.
Tony Bowker
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
-
Topic author - Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:48 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Sundstrom
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Touring
- Location: Vulcan, MI
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
Yes the old one is in the rear with wear on ball.
I did a test run with new pitman arm. It’s tighter but to me the steering seems more touchy or sensitive to wheel. I am going to check wheel alignment. Geez how many different pitman arm style were made!
I did a test run with new pitman arm. It’s tighter but to me the steering seems more touchy or sensitive to wheel. I am going to check wheel alignment. Geez how many different pitman arm style were made!
-
- Posts: 6431
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
Refer to June 4, 9:41 AM and 6:08PM for your answer: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1527895999
Also, your drag link may be wrong...they, too, came in different lengths, and may be found here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1322077087
Also, your drag link may be wrong...they, too, came in different lengths, and may be found here: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1322077087
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 6411
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
- Location: Graham, Texas
- MTFCA Number: 51486
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
I believe the shorter pitman will give a slower feel to the steering. The longer pitman will move the wheels farther left or right for any given movement of the steering wheel, and will require a little more effort. If you have slack or loose parts elsewhere in the system, the short pitman may make it feel worse. Everything on the running gear needs to be tightened properly, as well as being free from excess wear.
-
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 pm
- First Name: Eric
- Last Name: Dysart
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1916 Touring, 1927 Runabout
- Location: PNW
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
In theory, yes. But in real life, the difference would be barely noticeable, if perceptible at all. Any differences would probably be lost in all the other steering “noise” that you mention, even in a freshly rebuilt rig. I can’t believe that the change would be as significant as the change from 4:1 steering gears to 5:1 steering gears, which I found to be less noticeable than I expected. The original poster did notice in the steering “feel”, which I would attribute more to the better fitting pitman ball than the small geometry change.TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:30 pmI believe the shorter pitman will give a slower feel to the steering. The longer pitman will move the wheels farther left or right for any given movement of the steering wheel, and will require a little more effort. If you have slack or loose parts elsewhere in the system, the short pitman may make it feel worse. Everything on the running gear needs to be tightened properly, as well as being free from excess wear.
Eric
-
- Posts: 3299
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
Here are the two common steering ball arms. Factory #'s are on the forgings.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
- Posts: 5205
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
If things work or you need to salvage a known early part, it is not that difficult to replace the ball on the pitman arm. I grind two flats on the ball opposite one another until they are 1/2" apart, then do the same to make a square with 1/2" sides. It's not a big step to knock the corners off the square and then hand file/linnish the stub into a 1/2" round . This is then threaded.
The new ball comes from a vendor supplied straight shank tie rod end ball. Chuck it in the lathe and bore so that it an be tapped with the same thread. When it is screwed on to the pitman arm I make sure it stays there with a dab of weld.
The 1/2" stub is still larger than the neck at the back of the ball, so the strength of the arm is not compromised. This allows you to retain for use an early original part rather than fit a generally heavier looking replacement. The new ones are excellent items for general use, but they do not fit the bill if you are striving for originality.
Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.
The new ball comes from a vendor supplied straight shank tie rod end ball. Chuck it in the lathe and bore so that it an be tapped with the same thread. When it is screwed on to the pitman arm I make sure it stays there with a dab of weld.
The 1/2" stub is still larger than the neck at the back of the ball, so the strength of the arm is not compromised. This allows you to retain for use an early original part rather than fit a generally heavier looking replacement. The new ones are excellent items for general use, but they do not fit the bill if you are striving for originality.
Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.
-
Topic author - Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:48 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Sundstrom
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Touring
- Location: Vulcan, MI
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
Thank You all for great advice. Well, I ended up putting my old pitman arm back on the car. The car steered fine with the new pitman however had to realign to get toe in to 1/4”(May not had anything to do with new pitman). I discovered when I cranked the steering wheel to the left or right the pitman went over center or over 180 degree total travel until it hit the stops in the gear head of the steering column. When I turned hard right the tie rod was hitting the nose of the engine pan. For my steering the pitman is a No Go.
Allan, I have used refurbished steering balls on my A and have been very pleased. Perhaps I will do this pitman, it’s around .010” under so not that bad. John
Photo shows the new pitman allows tie rod to hit engine.
Allan, I have used refurbished steering balls on my A and have been very pleased. Perhaps I will do this pitman, it’s around .010” under so not that bad. John
Photo shows the new pitman allows tie rod to hit engine.
-
- Posts: 6431
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
Your opinion of it not affecting toe-in is correct. If you had to adjust it now, you had to adjust it before.
Purchase an APCO draglink cap and you will have ZERO slop at the ball and steering will be exceedingly responsive: https://www.modeltford.com/item/2728APCO.aspx
Purchase an APCO draglink cap and you will have ZERO slop at the ball and steering will be exceedingly responsive: https://www.modeltford.com/item/2728APCO.aspx
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:48 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Sundstrom
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Touring
- Location: Vulcan, MI
Re: Pitman Arm Ok?
Hmm, that’s a new one on me, allows for wear. Thanks for the info