1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
- Posts: 6463
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
- Contact:
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
If there were more than one picture I suspect we would see more than color and fenders that are not 1909. £30,000 = $41,400 USD. I won't be bidding.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
-
- Posts: 3907
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Kuehn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
- Location: Texas
- MTFCA Number: 28924
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
Winning bid plus buyers premium at 12.5 percent. HmmmHmmmm
-
- Posts: 2778
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:13 pm
- First Name: Tom
- Last Name: Rootlieb
- Location: Ohio
- MTFCA Number: 440
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
I would say they are 1909 fenders and to me it looks like it is a 1pc. front end with the spindles swapped side for side. Is that possible? Would be better with a 6 rivet. I suppose the 2-speed helps the weight.
-
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:02 pm
- First Name: George
- Last Name: Hand
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 open express, 1920 touring, 1926 tudor-lisenced and insured, 1921tt project 1922 fendered chassis, 192x tt dootle bug 192xengine w/winch projects
- Location: Preble NY
- MTFCA Number: 28114
- MTFCI Number: 21834
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
I see lots of little things I would be concerned with for what the estimate indicates it should bring. The car doesn't have a Speedometer. The Spindle Bolts do not have the proper "oilers" & I am unable to see the Tie rod bolts. The Pedals are not Lettered. The left latch for the coil box is incomplete. I am not commenting on the starter, hogshead. crankcase or 2pc. drive shaft. Clearly a nice car, but a creation & as such should not command big money. George
Last edited by George Hand on Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 1922
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
- First Name: Rich
- Last Name: Bingham
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 runabout
- Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
What's "Craftsmans of San Diego" coach work ?!?
Looks like a pastiche.
Looks like a pastiche.
"Get a horse !"
-
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 pm
- First Name: Eric
- Last Name: Dysart
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1916 Touring, 1927 Runabout
- Location: PNW
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
That sounds like Ray Wells. Excellent antique body replicas and repairs since the 1980’s.Rich Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:06 pmWhat's "Craftsmans of San Diego" coach work ?!?
Looks like a pastiche.
http://www.the-craftsman.biz/home.html
Eric
-
- Posts: 811
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:59 pm
- First Name: William
- Last Name: Vanderburg
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
- Location: Jackson, NJ
- MTFCA Number: 28382
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
That is most likely Ray Wells.Rich Bingham wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:06 pmWhat's "Craftsmans of San Diego" coach work ?!?
Looks like a pastiche.
William L Vanderburg
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
-
- Posts: 811
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:59 pm
- First Name: William
- Last Name: Vanderburg
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
- Location: Jackson, NJ
- MTFCA Number: 28382
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
It's a bitsa Town Car.
William L Vanderburg
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
-
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
- First Name: Val
- Last Name: Soupios
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '10 touring, '12 touring, '13 hack, '14 runabout, '14 touring, '14 speedster, '22 centerdoor, '27 touring
- Location: Jupiter Florida
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
There's a late '12 also being auctioned that looks to be a more correct restoration. Correct or not, I'd sure like to have that Town Car in my garage!
-
- Posts: 811
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:59 pm
- First Name: William
- Last Name: Vanderburg
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
- Location: Jackson, NJ
- MTFCA Number: 28382
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
The body alone is currently 12 grand.
William L Vanderburg
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
-
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Morsher
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925TT, 1926 Martin-Parry bodied wagon, 1927 mercury bodied speedster
- Location: Norwalk Ohio
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
The first line states it’s not a real town car. Looks nice and 99999 out of 10,000 wouldn’t know the difference and could care less.
-
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:10 pm
- First Name: Ron
- Last Name: Mc Willie
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1911 torpedo, 1913 runabout, 1914 pie wagon, speedsters
- Location: Pismo Beach CA
- Board Member Since: 2010
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
What would it cost to assemble that town car today?
12K for the body, plus fenders, hood, aprons, new brass radiator, new lights, Ruckstell, top, paint, upholstery, wheels, tires, engine and everything else equals WAY MORE than 50K and that doesn't include 100s of hours of labor.
I think it is one of the nicer assembled town cars I have seen in a long time. It's got a great look to it and the fact that it is right hand drive makes it even more fun.
12K for the body, plus fenders, hood, aprons, new brass radiator, new lights, Ruckstell, top, paint, upholstery, wheels, tires, engine and everything else equals WAY MORE than 50K and that doesn't include 100s of hours of labor.
I think it is one of the nicer assembled town cars I have seen in a long time. It's got a great look to it and the fact that it is right hand drive makes it even more fun.
-
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:02 pm
- First Name: George
- Last Name: Hand
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 open express, 1920 touring, 1926 tudor-lisenced and insured, 1921tt project 1922 fendered chassis, 192x tt dootle bug 192xengine w/winch projects
- Location: Preble NY
- MTFCA Number: 28114
- MTFCI Number: 21834
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
This clearly more Model T than I can afford, my concern is down the road this car will be assumed as Original, 2 of my drivers are "Bitsa" cars, and I make that apparent to those believing they are as Henry's people made them. the Coach work looks to be Suburb & as stated "Fitted with Craftsmans of San Diego coachwork" that in itself is very expensive to create. But it still the little things that would bother me if I was able & interested in owning, Rubber valve stems & all. I am sure who gets to buy this will enjoy their purchase of a rare body style. George
-
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
- First Name: Peter
- Last Name: Kable
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Town Car 1913 Speedster 1915 kampcar
- Location: Australia
- MTFCA Number: 4
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
I built a very similar Town car 50 years ago, this one like mine is a mixture of parts and not correct in lots of ways But like mine would be great to drive if the mechanics are done properly. Several builders supplies these bodies originally , they all vary slightly and as is often the case some restorers get details wrong. This one, no back window, no jump seats inside, windscreen does not slide up over drivers head., Laundau irons on roof fold wrong way to name a few. As to weight these bodies were not much heavier than a touring , mine is actually lighter.
I can see a few mistakes but they can be changed if one has to have it "correct" , my TC also has the wrong year block in it but it has always been a driver has done thousands of miles, still starts first pull of the crank even after months in storage. As mentioned most have no concept if something is exactly as it is supposed to be but this TC has had lots of money and attention applied to it and as Ron Mac stated all those bits add up to heaps of money plus the labor.
Having one for so long and also having been able to see original ones I consider I have a good knowledge of these early Town Cars. If someone had the ability to purchase this TC it would be a good buy, I really object to the loading of the price with a 12.5 % premium. Owner may find that stops it selling.
I can see a few mistakes but they can be changed if one has to have it "correct" , my TC also has the wrong year block in it but it has always been a driver has done thousands of miles, still starts first pull of the crank even after months in storage. As mentioned most have no concept if something is exactly as it is supposed to be but this TC has had lots of money and attention applied to it and as Ron Mac stated all those bits add up to heaps of money plus the labor.
Having one for so long and also having been able to see original ones I consider I have a good knowledge of these early Town Cars. If someone had the ability to purchase this TC it would be a good buy, I really object to the loading of the price with a 12.5 % premium. Owner may find that stops it selling.
-
Topic author - Posts: 192
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:37 pm
- First Name: Jem
- Last Name: Bowkett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 Touring #9267
- Location: Spalding United Kingdom
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
Well, I hoped to provoke discussion and I did! Couple of points others haven't made: RHD - to the best of my knowledge there are none from 1909, the first RHD import to the UK was in 1910, I will check what 'The English Model T Ford' says. There is no paperwork, no registration document, no frame no - it might be impossible to register in the UK, the authorities are getting tricky here with 'assembled' cars. Indeed, what evidence is there that it should be called 1909 at all?
Anybody noticed those brass dome nuts on the wheels? Back in the day, English buyers were used to being able to change a wheel, not take a tyre off at the side of the road, so the selling dealer would offer to convert the US wheels by using 3 original bolts to hold the hub together and fitting 3 studs to the hub with dome nuts. So, if it has a demountable conversion, there should only be 3 dome nuts. Something wrong with those wheels.
The spark & gas levers look odd, should have a hard rubber knob. The lights are doubtless repro, but the rear lamp is a correct RHD configuration, must have been special order. Someone mentioned lack of 6 rivet rearend, for 1909 it should be a no-rivet. Did the original donor car have a motor or rear axle at all?
Pretty car but very much a bitza of unknown provenance.
Oh, and 12.5% buyers premium is the standard here, being an auctioneer is thirsty work, they need plenty of champagne!
Anybody noticed those brass dome nuts on the wheels? Back in the day, English buyers were used to being able to change a wheel, not take a tyre off at the side of the road, so the selling dealer would offer to convert the US wheels by using 3 original bolts to hold the hub together and fitting 3 studs to the hub with dome nuts. So, if it has a demountable conversion, there should only be 3 dome nuts. Something wrong with those wheels.
The spark & gas levers look odd, should have a hard rubber knob. The lights are doubtless repro, but the rear lamp is a correct RHD configuration, must have been special order. Someone mentioned lack of 6 rivet rearend, for 1909 it should be a no-rivet. Did the original donor car have a motor or rear axle at all?
Pretty car but very much a bitza of unknown provenance.
Oh, and 12.5% buyers premium is the standard here, being an auctioneer is thirsty work, they need plenty of champagne!
-
- Posts: 1297
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: van Ekeren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
- Location: Rosedale Vic Australia
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
Well for what I can see in the photo's the Ford half of the rear axle housing has a low filler plug and tapered axle hubs. Would love to see some engine photos to see if it has been changed to open valve
-
Topic author - Posts: 192
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:37 pm
- First Name: Jem
- Last Name: Bowkett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 Touring #9267
- Location: Spalding United Kingdom
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: 1909 Town Car to be auctioned in UK
https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/76- ... 54841&sd=1
Sold for £33,750 Inc premium. I didn't go to view, would have liked to know if the frame was 1909. Still think the new owner might have trouble getting a UK registration. The more genuine 1912 seems unsold.
Sold for £33,750 Inc premium. I didn't go to view, would have liked to know if the frame was 1909. Still think the new owner might have trouble getting a UK registration. The more genuine 1912 seems unsold.