Inner Tubes

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
m_p_dean@yahoo.com
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:54 pm
First Name: Maurice
Last Name: Dean
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring Car
Location: Mesa, AZ
MTFCA Number: 50442

Inner Tubes

Post by m_p_dean@yahoo.com » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:13 pm

OK, everybody hates these "what should I get" questions. I have a '17 Touring car with clincher wheels. I bought a new set of 30X3 1/2 Wards R/S tires. I need to get some tubes, and would rather not repair more flats than I need to. I'm OK with rubber stems. So, "what should I get", and from where?

I might as well ask the next annoying question. If I understand correctly, flaps protect the tubes from the spokes. Since my car has demountable rims, the spokes don't come into the rims, or contact the tubes. That said, I suspect that I don't need flaps.

Thank in advance. Maury Dean


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:28 pm

You need flaps. They make it almost impossible to pinch a tube.

User avatar

JTT3
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Tannehill
Location: Hot Coffee, MS
MTFCA Number: 49460

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by JTT3 » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:40 pm

Indeed! Get them.


John Codman
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Youring
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by John Codman » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:42 pm

Flaps are about as controversial a topic as "What oil should I use?" and Mystery oil. When I dismounted a brand-new Firestone that the previous owner had installed, there was no flap. I assumed (correctly) that all of the tires - including the spare were also flapless. I bought a set of flaps from Lang's and installed them (a bit of a PIA, but doable). I have been driving the T for seven years now and have never had a flat (knock on wood). I don't even bring a jack anymore; I do however carry my cell phone and AAA card. FWIW my '27 also has wood wheels. I rest my case.

User avatar

ewdysar
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Dysart
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1916 Touring, 1927 Runabout
Location: PNW

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by ewdysar » Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:48 pm

There also often seems to be some confusion between flaps and rim strips. I use flaps in every T tire that I’ve mounted, the flap goes inside the tire casing to provide a smooth and regular space for tube to live in. Without the flap, the tube will squeeze into the gap between the tire beads under pressure, increasing the chance of leaks. Flaps also make it very difficult to pinch the tube during tire mounting. Rim strips are a completely different animal, the strip goes into the rim to cover the ends of the spokes and to cover any other irregularities that might cause tube issues. Some folks use duct tape instead of rim strips, which seems to work just about as well, but might be a bit messier over time. I don’t know if anyone uses both flaps and strips on the same wheel, but to me, that sounds redundant.

Keep crankin’
Eric

User avatar

TWrenn
Posts: 3389
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by TWrenn » Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:01 pm

Never had flaps, never put em in myself, never plan to. I cut a tire off a rim (non-demountable) and the beads were so close together there was no way a tube could get pinched. I do line the rim with gorilla tape. Same with my demountable rims. So far, so good. Maybe I'm lucky.


Norman Kling
Posts: 4071
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:28 pm

I use flaps on clinchers and on split rims, however I use rim strips on the wire spoke wheels. I have never had aftermarket spoke wheels, so have no experience with that type.
Norm

User avatar

Humblej
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Humble
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian built coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, survivor 1924 roadster
Location: Charlevoix, Mi
MTFCA Number: 28034
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Humblej » Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:56 pm

Flaps yes. Helps eliminating tube pinches and cuts while mounting the tire. I put the flap on a partially inflated tube then put the tube and flap inside the tire. Bounce a few times, then install as a unit on the rim. I use lots of baby powder to keep the rubber parts from bonding to each other, helps as an installation lube, and smells good. No messy soapy water. I do the same for clinchers and split rims.
Last edited by Humblej on Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar

aDave
Posts: 314
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:21 am
First Name: David
Last Name: Dufault
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915
Location: Concord New Hampshire
MTFCA Number: 303
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by aDave » Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:31 pm

Maury Dean,
As the others have explained, your statement:
If I understand correctly, flaps protect the tubes from the spokes. "

is incorrect

Common misunderstanding, though.

Dave

User avatar

Humblej
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Humble
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian built coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, survivor 1924 roadster
Location: Charlevoix, Mi
MTFCA Number: 28034
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Humblej » Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:35 pm

Yes, RIM LINERS protect tubes from spokes in drop center wheels, FLAPS are used to protect tubes from pinching in clincher and split rims.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:19 pm

OK, now let's get to the original question. There are two brands of tubes for clinchers that are most commonly sold in the USA. I have had good luck with Hartford tubes (China) sold by Coker and others. I am avoiding Custom Classic (India) because there was a run of them prone to splitting, and I don't want to run the risk that some of those are still in stock. I don't remember where I got them, but it was from one of the major dealers in clincher tires. When you shop for tubes, just ask what brand the dealer sells. I have one EEC tube recently installed, and so far it is fine. Mark Strange thinks I got it from him, and I probably did, so I can't tell you the source of that one. I have not tried Blockley tubes yet, but some who have posted about them say they are far superior to all the others.

I have used flaps, and I have not used flaps, and I can't see any difference in how the tires last. As for pinching during installation, I suspect that may be a result of mounting the tire one side at a time rather than both sides together. Of course, I could be wrong. That did happen once.

The materials used in some products have limited lives. Avery labels dry out and fall off. Cotton eventually rots. Plastic gets brittle and goes to pieces. Relevant to this discussion, rubber deteriorates with age. And duct tape eventually dries out and comes loose. Sad experience has taught me not to buy NOS or used tires or tubes.

I do use talcum as a lubricant, and long irons. In my book Ford irons are for display only. Mounting tires with them is the job from Hell. The 24" irons from HF work for me. They cost about $6 each.

The price of metal stem tubes is generally about $15 more than those with rubber stems. I buy rubber stemmed tubes, cut off the stems, and install my own metal stems. A couple of weeks ago at Hershey the metal stems I bought were $5 each because they were clean and shiny. The ones bearing several decades of patina often cost less than that.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG110.html
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Allan
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:48 pm

The new Blockley tubes are twice the weight of any of the cheaper offerings. They come with an original style threaded brass stem that takes original dust covers, albeit the next size up from original T tubes. The surprising thing is they reportedly hold air.

If you have $200 to waste on unnecessary flaps just to avoid the chance of pinching a tube during fitting, go right ahead. Or, you can cut a rim liner from a discarded 13" tube from a tyre fitter, and fit both beads simultaneously as Steve Jelf suggests. Flaps and notches cut in tyre beads are both actions made because of tyre fitting techniques used.

Allan from down under.


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Model T Roadster
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:01 pm

Allen, the only problem is not knowing how to buy those tubes.

They are definitely worth the price, I would like to buy some!

User avatar

Oldav8tor
Posts: 1930
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Juhl
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring
Location: Thumb of Michigan
MTFCA Number: 50297
MTFCI Number: 24810
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Oldav8tor » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:44 pm

I tried rubber stemmed Hartfords - had two flats due to stem failure. The problem was, the edges of the clincher come so close together that they can cut the stem over time (first photo).

An "old time" solution is to grind a bit off the bead to provide relief for the stem (second photo.)

My final solution was to buy new Blockley brass-stemmed tubes (best available in my opinion) which won't be cut by the bead. I installed flaps along with a bridge washer on the stem to prevent the tube from bulging down into the space between the clincher beads which I think must reduce wear and strain on the tube. For that and the reasons expressed by others I will continue to use flaps.
Universal T Driver Tire on clincher rim.jpg
Universal T Driver Tire on clincher rim.jpg (32.16 KiB) Viewed 4811 times
IMG_1591.jpg
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor


Topic author
m_p_dean@yahoo.com
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:54 pm
First Name: Maurice
Last Name: Dean
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring Car
Location: Mesa, AZ
MTFCA Number: 50442

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by m_p_dean@yahoo.com » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:17 pm

Thank you all for the advice. I'll save my oil and MMO questions for some time when I'm bored.
Thanks again, Maury


Alan Long
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Long
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Canadian Touring Car and 1926 Australian built Utility
Location: Western Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Alan Long » Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:18 pm

We are lucking in Australia as we have two companies that stock Blockley Tyres and Tubes.
I’ve just received 5 Tubes and Tyre from the Victorian Company and they were here in the time it takes a Truck to
drive across the country. (About 5 Days) The other Company is in Queensland. I love the look, weight, smell and quality looking
finish of Tubes. (Brass stems)
Alan in Western Australia


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:51 am

Is it possible to buy Blockley tubes with a rubber stem?

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 4956
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
Location: Portland Or
MTFCA Number: 52564
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:21 am

Not all tubes have the same diameter, even if marked for 30x3-1/2. I have worked with some, that there was no way to keep the tube in the tire when mounting if flaps had not been in place. They just wanted to pull out of the tire, because were more like for a 28/29" tire.
The photos above that show the cross-section, is a good illustration of what can happen with some brands of tires, not all of them have a bead that fully encloses the tube.
The 21" wood wheel split rim, most all I have pulled down had flaps because of the split.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup

User avatar

TWrenn
Posts: 3389
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by TWrenn » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:25 am

J1MGOLDEN wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:01 pm
Allen, the only problem is not knowing how to buy those tubes.

They are definitely worth the price, I would like to buy some!
Jim...here's Bkockleys website. I would think you should be able to buy direct from them.

info@blockleytyre.com

User avatar

TWrenn
Posts: 3389
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by TWrenn » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:27 am

Sorry, that may be an email address which would be just as effective.

Here's the actual web address of which I copied that from:

www.blockleytyre.com

Hope this helps.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:30 am

Is it possible to buy Blockley tubes with a rubber stem?

Their website shows only metal stem tubes for beaded edge (clincher) tyres. The price of £29 ($40.02 USD) is about a dollar less than Coker's price for a metal stem tube. I realize that the Blockley tubes are reportedly a much better product, but if I want to use my own metal stems I would get the Hartford rubber stem tubes. Since I started paying attention to tube brands I've been using Hartfords and they have been quite satisfactory for me.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Alan Long
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Long
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Canadian Touring Car and 1926 Australian built Utility
Location: Western Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Alan Long » Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:45 am

I agree with the above notes and would only use Hartford Tubes if the Blockley (metal stemmed) weren’t available.
The only other Tube I do like is the Michelin brand made in Italy. They are also 100% Butyl and even heavier than Blockley.
The downside is the Michelin suits 3 Tyre sizes! Blockley refuse the make Tubes that suit multiple Tyre sizes and as they point
out it’s about reducing inventory levels for the Stockists. In one application the Tube will be under a stretched situation and in
others possible folded being to large for the space. 30 x 3 1/2 is the mid range size noted on the box.
Alan in Western Australia


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Model T Roadster
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:38 pm

There is a rumor going around here that the Blockley tubes are also made in China and not much better.

Was that one started by the competition?


Alan Long
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Long
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Canadian Touring Car and 1926 Australian built Utility
Location: Western Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Alan Long » Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:37 am

Must be a Rumour!
I have Cheapies, Hartford and Blockley Tubes here for evaluation. The Blockley wins for weight, smell, Feel and
all round quality of the product and vulcanisation of the metal stem to Tube.
It’s been manufactured to suit the 30 x 3 1/2” (not 3 sizes) and made of 100% Butyl.
Like their Tyres, the Blockley name is all over it. Yes, I believe they are made in Vietnam using Blockley moulds
that were recently reproduced. They have a QA Guy looking at every process. It doesn’t really matter where they are made
as long as they maintain the specifications. Others here have success with Hartford as they are a better bet than all the other
junk that is unfit for purpose and believe fail Australian Consumer Laws. Just my experiences
Alan in Western Australia

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:28 pm

Remember when Made in Japan meant cheap junk? Then we found out that the Japanese were quite capable of producing products of the highest quality. In recent years China has been known for cheap junk. Guess what. The Chinese are also capable of producing high quality goods. So why are Chinese products in stores here so often of inferior quality? Because that's what importers order and buy from them to get goods at the lowest possible cost. I believe the same applies to any country that manufactures products for export. They can produce cheap junk or high quality, depending on what the buyer wants. In the case of clincher tires and tubes, one customer (Blockley) is said to set higher standards for what is acceptable, while others choose lower standards. The problem with poor products is not their country of origin (Vietnam, India, China), but the willingness of importers to set a low bar.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:52 pm

Japan has been making some of the finsest products available anywhere for decades now. China is catching up fast, and probably has the most modern manufacturing facilites on earth today. India has a ways to go yet, but is making progress as far as manufacturing and product quality. As for the USA, we are going to hell in a handbasket. It need not be so.


Allan
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:17 am

Steve, i agree with you wholeheartedly. For way too long we have suffered the consequences of the lack of quality specified by the importers of the junk tyres and tubes foisted on the captive market that we are. The tyres and tubes available to us are clearly not fit for purpose. No tyre for a modern car should crack up in a couple of years or wear out in 2000 miles. Tubes should be expected to hold air. As Alan Long mentioned, under Australian consumer law, the vendor of such items is obliged to replace them if they are not fit for purpose. His only recourse is with his suppliers, and we know how far that will go. Is it any wonder that retailers give up selling inferior products, and that their continued supply has led to the entry of Blockley into the market.

Allan from down under.


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 3638
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
Location: Grass Valley California, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:04 pm

USA used to have and enforce consumer protection laws. Not these days. Replacement tires for our modern cars these days would have been illegal to sell thirty years ago! There were strict requirements for UV resistance that today's tires do not come close to meeting. The Firestone company was almost totally destroyed because of radial tires failing forty years ago. Those tires today would be the second best things one could buy for their car to drive on! Tires used to be required to last almost indefinitely without major wear or significant damage. I have many tires that are thirty to fifty years old that I wouldn't hesitate to put on a car and drive far and fast!
I kept the wheels and tires off an old nothing pickup truck (ute) that I junked for mechanical failure reasons several years ago. The tires were old, and in very good condition. I may never own another vehicle that uses that size? But if I do, I will have a full set of tires for it!

I have in the recent fifteen years seen modern size/application tires falling apart with few miles, no harmful damage, and only about five years age on them. Thirty years ago? Any company manufacturing or selling tires like that would have been required by the Consumer Protection Agency to give away millions of new tires as compensation to customers. Today? Our government tells the people to buy new tires every five years whether the tires have been used or not.

The historic exception to much of all that is the cotton cord tires used for half a century before synthetic threads made cotton cord so impractical. Water could seep into the cotton cord, and if the cotton cord had any microbiological infestation? That water seepage could activate it and cause the cotton cord to rot internally. I had an old cotton cord tire years ago that looked nearly new! But the cord had rotted so severely that I was able to rip the sidewalls with my bare hands!
Any properly made synthetic cord tire should be good for no less than thirty years baring significant damage or being literally worn out.


Allan
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:50 pm

Wayne, you raise an interesting point re the 5 year lifespan of modern tyres. I have a local tyre dealer who is most helpful. He is not permitted to mount tyres which are over 5 years old, according to law. So any tyre I need refitted now has to be for off road/agricultural use! I can even get used tyres fitted for my ute now, as the new self propelled auger we use has the same size tyres.

Allan from down under.


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:23 am

USA tubes were available ten years ago. What happened? Someone must know who made them. As I recall, the one I have for a spare has no markings on the package. The Model A guys have access to the correct tire valves for their cars. Why can't a USA do the same thing? I'm not willing to buy a tube with the incorrect valve stem on it. I've been putting original USA Schrader's on tubes for over a dozen years now, and they work fine. It's too bad the repro boys can't do the same thing for our T's, as the repro Model A guys did?


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by speedytinc » Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:28 am

Allan wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:50 pm
Wayne, you raise an interesting point re the 5 year lifespan of modern tyres. I have a local tyre dealer who is most helpful. He is not permitted to mount tyres which are over 5 years old, according to law. So any tyre I need refitted now has to be for off road/agricultural use! I can even get used tyres fitted for my ute now, as the new self propelled auger we use has the same size tyres.

Allan from down under.
We just have to work a little harder to keep the government from keeping us safe, dont we?
Arround here, I can still find good paint for a "refrigerator"


Luke
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:04 am
First Name: Luke
Last Name: P
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926
Location: New Zealand

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Luke » Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:12 pm

Allan wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:50 pm
He is not permitted to mount tyres which are over 5 years old, according to law. So any tyre I need refitted now has to be for off road/agricultural use!
Strewth!

Is that a State or Federal Law? Most unlike you Ockers to be that girly :mrgreen:


Allan
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:35 pm

I have no idea for the 5 year limit on tyre fitting. I shall ask next time I am at the shop. It may be an insurance liability thing. If that is the case, we have likely caught it from you guys. ;)

Allan from down under.


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 3638
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
Location: Grass Valley California, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:22 pm

I am not sure who is leading whom. But the whole world has been heading down a very bad "rabbit hole" for too long already. No personal or corporate integrity. Manufacturing products that are totally unfit for the use they are sold for? Governments that lie to their population while protecting criminals both lowdown and high up white collar types. "No society can long survive if built upon a foundation of lies!"

In our country, there is a major tire store chain that advertises how they are helpful to people and potential customers. They do a lot of simple things for "no charge", and if you offer a couple bucks tip? They will very politely refuse it.
I do almost all my tire service myself. However, a modern car I had about ten years ago had tires and rims that were slightly beyond my tools capability. When I got a nail in a bad spot (right on the transition between tread and sidewall), and explained the financial situation that I simply couldn't replace four otherwise good tires due to a single small nail hole, they fixed it for free.
To me, one of the benefits of a self education coupled with some college, and the business law courses I had taken, was that I already knew "why". The manager had taken care of it, and I told him I would be very happy to give him a generous tip, but I knew he would have to refuse it. He looked me straight in the eye, and said "You figured it out!" If NO money changes hands, the company (theoretically?) is not liable if the repair fails. And that means not even a few pennies tip.
A few years later, however, when I had to buy four new tires for the Ford Expedition? I went back and bought them there. I actually appreciate their solution to a legal and ethical dilemma.

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by RajoRacer » Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:10 pm

Holy - Moly - major thread drift fellas !


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 3638
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
Location: Grass Valley California, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:43 pm

Steve T, Drift? Perhaps. But that is the reason we haven't been able to get decent inner tubes for nearly twenty years now! So that makes it model T and inner tube related, and thread related.
Perhaps we NEED to DENMAND being treated with honesty by corporations, AND government.


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 3638
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
Location: Grass Valley California, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:52 pm

I have two model Ts I cannot drive right now because I have only two inner tubes holding air, and they are over thirty years old! I bought them over ten years ago second hand.
Five of the last seven new inner tubes I bought totally failed within two years! Two of them barely hold air enough to roll a car around for a few days, maybe! I didn't buy cheap tubes. I paid good money to one of the supposedly best antique tire and tube suppliers for their better tubes!
If people do not begin to DEMAND fair and honest treatment? It will only get worse.


DHort
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hjortnaes
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
Location: Men Falls, WI
MTFCA Number: 28762
MTFCI Number: 22402

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by DHort » Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:10 am

Correct me if I am wrong. It looks like Blockley uses Presta valves and not Schraeder valves. The Presta valve appears to have a cap on it, but nothing to cover the entire valve. Can you purchase covers for the Presta valves, or are you limited to the small caps? Maybe at a bicycle shop??


Allan
Posts: 5204
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:06 am

I don't quite follow the concerns over the Blockley tubes and their metal valve stems. I understand they take the old original valve stem hardware that is the same as the larger diameter Schraeder stems. I consider it way more important that the tubes hold air over any concerns about the valve stems. Then again, I use Dill sliding thread covers which fit any kind of stem, even rubber ones.

Allan from down under.


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:27 am

We could buy good quality USA tubes around ten years ago. What happened? I just had a situation as mentioned above originally caused by a nail. Because of local tire store problems not having a competent tire patch guy, my problem just got worse. I've had that tire off now at least four times, and at 78 years old, it ain't no fun! Yesterday, I found an old Riverside tube from way back that I installed. I'll see if it still has air in it this morning!
In the same pile, I have an old Firestone tube that is at least 40 years old. The Schrader valve stem actually goes through a wood felloe, as does the Riverside. Why did they ever change that? A quality product is what we need now. They have to be selling more tubes today than they were 30 or 40 years ago!

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:55 pm

It looks like Blockley uses Presta valves and not Schraeder valves.

Having never heard of Presta valves, I Googled the name and did some reading. All the references to them that I read were related to bicycle use. The most significant difference I found between Schrader and Presta valve stems is that the Presta stem is narrower. But the comparison in all cases was with Schrader bicycle valve stems. From the illustrations, it appears to me that the Schrader bicycle stems are narrower than the old automotive stems, and the Presta stems are even narrower. That means that neither original nor reproduction dust covers will fit the Presta stems. I aim to look into this a bit more and see if I'm right.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Oldav8tor
Posts: 1930
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Juhl
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring
Location: Thumb of Michigan
MTFCA Number: 50297
MTFCI Number: 24810
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Oldav8tor » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:54 pm

I have Blockley tubes. I put balance beads in the tubes and replaced the Schrader valve with the "special" one that comes with the balance bead kit. Perfect fit!

I also installed valve stem covers that I purchased from Lang's. Also a perfect fit.

IMO, the job Blockley does attaching the valve stem to the tube is far superior to anything I could do with an original valve stem purchased at a swap meet. With the valve cover installed you can't tell the difference from the original style.
IMG_2334.jpg
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:49 pm

I also installed valve stem covers that I purchased from Lang's. Also a perfect fit.

I guess that means Blockley's stems are the same size as the ones currently used on other tubes.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Alan Long
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Long
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Canadian Touring Car and 1926 Australian built Utility
Location: Western Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Alan Long » Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:15 pm

The Blockley Tubes I have here are exactly as described on the companies describes on their web page.
The Brass Stem is beautifully installed (as others have mentioned) and is the TR383 which I believe is the Schroder number?
but either way it is 3” in length and 1/2” in Diameter. I too bought the Valve covers off Lang’s and the combination is perfect.
It’s all about the service life and confidence of safety that a quality product provides and not a Valve Stem that’s too long, short
fat or thin!
Alan in Western Australia


DHort
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hjortnaes
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
Location: Men Falls, WI
MTFCA Number: 28762
MTFCI Number: 22402

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by DHort » Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:41 am

Thank you for that info Tim. Is that item # DC1?

User avatar

Oldav8tor
Posts: 1930
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Juhl
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring
Location: Thumb of Michigan
MTFCA Number: 50297
MTFCI Number: 24810
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Oldav8tor » Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:45 am

Yup. DC-1 cap and RW-1 rim nut. I found some leather washers at Oshkosh and have one between the nut and the felloe and another between the cap and the nut. When installing the tube I used flaps, then a bridge washer in the space between the flap and the rim.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:57 am

I put a Custom Classic tube in yesterday. Had a hell of a time getting the tire on, and I've been doing this for over 60 years! I don't see how these tubes fit three sizes of tires. Maybe that is why it was so difficult for me to mount the tire? I just went out the the garage a few minutes ago, and the tire still has air in it! What a relief.
I think Stan Lucas should approach an American tire company about making tubes, and maybe tires here in the USA again. We have got to be using more tires and tubes today than back in the sixties when you could still buy them from Montgomery Wards.

User avatar

Quickm007
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:58 am
First Name: Mario
Last Name: Brossard
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring and 1914 speedster
Location: Quebec City Canada
MTFCA Number: 30981
MTFCI Number: 30981
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Quickm007 » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:28 am

Did you know if the bridge washer and lock nut from Lang's will fit on Blockley tires as well ?
Oldav8tor wrote:
Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:45 am
Yup. DC-1 cap and RW-1 rim nut. I found some leather washers at Oshkosh and have one between the nut and the felloe and another between the cap and the nut. When installing the tube I used flaps, then a bridge washer in the space between the flap and the rim.
Super Mario Bross ;)

1911 Touring
1914 Speedster

User avatar

Oldav8tor
Posts: 1930
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Juhl
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring
Location: Thumb of Michigan
MTFCA Number: 50297
MTFCI Number: 24810
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Oldav8tor » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:51 am

Yes, I got the bridge washers from Langs. Blockley does not supply them. I installed the tube according to this diagram:
Tube_Install.jpg
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:55 pm

I put a Custom Classic tube in yesterday.

I hope you got a good one. There was a run of those that were prone to splitting. I was slow to learn. I patched one seven times before I finally figured out what was going on and tossed it. I'm avoiding Custom Classics just in case any of those splitters are still in stock.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Quickm007
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:58 am
First Name: Mario
Last Name: Brossard
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring and 1914 speedster
Location: Quebec City Canada
MTFCA Number: 30981
MTFCI Number: 30981
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Quickm007 » Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:38 pm

Thank you Tim, I will probably try these Blockley tires and tubes
Super Mario Bross ;)

1911 Touring
1914 Speedster

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:13 pm

My email to Blockley tyre, 11-3-21:

A comment on the Model T forum suggested that the Blockley 30 x 3½ tubes may have Presta valve stems, so I have questions.
1 Are the stems on your tubes Presta, or do they match one of the Schrader sizes used in the Model T era? (Other tubes with metal stems currently use the larger of the two Schrader sizes.) http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG110.html
2 Your website doesn’t list 30 x 3 tubes. Do you not have the tubes for tyres in that size, or is the omission an oversight?

The reply from Julian Magzub at Blockley, 11-4-21:

Hi Stephen,

In reply to your email:
1) I copied some valve stems that were on a100 year old period 30x3 1/2 inner tube, so I knew they would be correct for the era. All I can tell you is the main stem diameter is 0.475" and the length I made the same. This original stem was nickel plated, like everything from the period, so that is why the Blockley tube stems are also nickel plated.

Thanks for the "Dauntless geezer" link, showing how to fix an original stem in a rubber stemmed new tube. In period I am sure rubber stems did not exist in any case, the rubber stems being a later development for "cheapness" / profitability. But although "Dauntless Geezers" idea is excellent, the real issue being missed here is that inner tubes available today from Coker and the other wholesalers, under the various brand names, are just utter garbage, irrespective of stem type. Profit is the king, not quality, and what you get today is really quite disgraceful.

So when I was persuaded to produce an awesome quality Clincher 30x3 1/2 and 30x3 tire (which we sell for no more than all the stuff you have all been trained up for - Wards, Universal, Firestone, Excelsior etc) I realised we would only be doing half the job if we didn't also make a really decent wholesome quality inner tube, for a trouble free life, just as all our other Blockley tubes are.
2) We currently make some 9 sizes of Clincher tyres (shortly to be 10 sizes), including the 2 sizes popular on the Model T's. The 30x3 1/2 and 30x3 we designed with a diamond pattern tread, which we thought had the best look to them in period Model T photographs (although that is only my opinion). And we designed and made a new tube to suit them which we marked 30x3 1/2, but we made the tube carefully dimensioned so it would be good in both our 30x3 1/2 and 30x3 tyres. So in answer to your question, there was no oversight or omission. Different manufacturers tubes have very different dimensions to them even though they have the same number written on them. For example the expensive tube that is recommended here is the Michelin 760x90 tube, but it is far far too long, and the diameter too small etc. People should look at the physical product rather than what is written on the box, as I eventually learnt. And not listen to old car tyre wholesalers like Coker Tire and the like who have been milking everyone for too long (and now sold out to a venture capital company), and they are not the only ones! None of the salesmen there are using the stuff themselves . .
Best Wishes,

Julian.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Alan Long
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Long
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Canadian Touring Car and 1926 Australian built Utility
Location: Western Australia

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Alan Long » Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:33 am

Well, there you go! Straight from “the horses mouth” so to speak. Not often do you get a reply direct from the Business Owner
(And phone call to me) As mentioned above (somewhere) I have the Michelin Tube here that Julian was referring to and yes,
it’s a heavier material but very small in “roundness” that is more like a motor bike tube and that plus the suitability to fit
three sizes of Tyres put me off it. It’s all about reducing inventory by the manufactures / stockists.
I also like the fact that the name “Blockley” is clearly marked / embedded in their products and not hiding behind
EEC or similar other useless information! Steve, thanks for posting the reply from Julian
Alan in Western Australia


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:20 am

I've been cutting off rubber stems for many years, and replacing them with the CORRECT size metal stems, mostly which are made by Schrader. During the T era and beyond all new tubes came with the metal stems well into the thirties. I'm not willing to accept any newly manufactured tube unless it's made exactly like the original. The Model A boys have solved the problem, and now it's up to the T boys to do the same!


Chris Haynes
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Haynes
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Runabout
Location: Camarillo. CA
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Chris Haynes » Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:00 pm

I am very happy with the heavy tubes with metal stems that are made by Bloxley Tire Co. https://www.blockleytyre.com/

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic