MTFCA Forum

OK, everybody hates these "what should I get" questions. I have a '17 Touring car with clincher wheels. I bought a new set of 30X3 1/2 Wards R/S tires. I need to get some tubes, and would rather not repair more flats than I need to. I'm OK with rubber stems. So, "what should I get", and from where?

I might as well ask the next annoying question. If I understand correctly, flaps protect the tubes from the spokes. Since my car has demountable rims, the spokes don't come into the rims, or contact the tubes. That said, I suspect that I don't need flaps.

Thank in advance. Maury Dean

You need flaps. They make it almost impossible to pinch a tube.

Indeed! Get them.

Flaps are about as controversial a topic as "What oil should I use?" and Mystery oil. When I dismounted a brand-new Firestone that the previous owner had installed, there was no flap. I assumed (correctly) that all of the tires - including the spare were also flapless. I bought a set of flaps from Lang's and installed them (a bit of a PIA, but doable). I have been driving the T for seven years now and have never had a flat (knock on wood). I don't even bring a jack anymore; I do however carry my cell phone and AAA card. FWIW my '27 also has wood wheels. I rest my case.

There also often seems to be some confusion between flaps and rim strips. I use flaps in every T tire that I’ve mounted, the flap goes inside the tire casing to provide a smooth and regular space for tube to live in. Without the flap, the tube will squeeze into the gap between the tire beads under pressure, increasing the chance of leaks. Flaps also make it very difficult to pinch the tube during tire mounting. Rim strips are a completely different animal, the strip goes into the rim to cover the ends of the spokes and to cover any other irregularities that might cause tube issues. Some folks use duct tape instead of rim strips, which seems to work just about as well, but might be a bit messier over time. I don’t know if anyone uses both flaps and strips on the same wheel, but to me, that sounds redundant.

Keep crankin’
Eric

Never had flaps, never put em in myself, never plan to. I cut a tire off a rim (non-demountable) and the beads were so close together there was no way a tube could get pinched. I do line the rim with gorilla tape. Same with my demountable rims. So far, so good. Maybe I'm lucky.

I use flaps on clinchers and on split rims, however I use rim strips on the wire spoke wheels. I have never had aftermarket spoke wheels, so have no experience with that type.
Norm

Flaps yes. Helps eliminating tube pinches and cuts while mounting the tire. I put the flap on a partially inflated tube then put the tube and flap inside the tire. Bounce a few times, then install as a unit on the rim. I use lots of baby powder to keep the rubber parts from bonding to each other, helps as an installation lube, and smells good. No messy soapy water. I do the same for clinchers and split rims.

Maury Dean,
As the others have explained, your statement:
If I understand correctly, flaps protect the tubes from the spokes. "

is incorrect

Common misunderstanding, though.

Dave

Yes, RIM LINERS protect tubes from spokes in drop center wheels, FLAPS are used to protect tubes from pinching in clincher and split rims.

The new Blockley tubes are twice the weight of any of the cheaper offerings. They come with an original style threaded brass stem that takes original dust covers, albeit the next size up from original T tubes. The surprising thing is they reportedly hold air.

If you have $200 to waste on unnecessary flaps just to avoid the chance of pinching a tube during fitting, go right ahead. Or, you can cut a rim liner from a discarded 13" tube from a tyre fitter, and fit both beads simultaneously as Steve Jelf suggests. Flaps and notches cut in tyre beads are both actions made because of tyre fitting techniques used.

Allan from down under.

Allen, the only problem is not knowing how to buy those tubes.

They are definitely worth the price, I would like to buy some!

I tried rubber stemmed Hartfords - had two flats due to stem failure. The problem was, the edges of the clincher come so close together that they can cut the stem over time (first photo).

An "old time" solution is to grind a bit off the bead to provide relief for the stem (second photo.)

My final solution was to buy new Blockley brass-stemmed tubes (best available in my opinion) which won't be cut by the bead. I installed flaps along with a bridge washer on the stem to prevent the tube from bulging down into the space between the clincher beads which I think must reduce wear and strain on the tube. For that and the reasons expressed by others I will continue to use flaps.

Thank you all for the advice. I'll save my oil and MMO questions for some time when I'm bored.
Thanks again, Maury

We are lucking in Australia as we have two companies that stock Blockley Tyres and Tubes.
I’ve just received 5 Tubes and Tyre from the Victorian Company and they were here in the time it takes a Truck to
drive across the country. (About 5 Days) The other Company is in Queensland. I love the look, weight, smell and quality looking
finish of Tubes. (Brass stems)
Alan in Western Australia

Is it possible to buy Blockley tubes with a rubber stem?

Not all tubes have the same diameter, even if marked for 30x3-1/2. I have worked with some, that there was no way to keep the tube in the tire when mounting if flaps had not been in place. They just wanted to pull out of the tire, because were more like for a 28/29" tire.
The photos above that show the cross-section, is a good illustration of what can happen with some brands of tires, not all of them have a bead that fully encloses the tube.
The 21" wood wheel split rim, most all I have pulled down had flaps because of the split.

J1MGOLDEN wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:01 pm

Allen, the only problem is not knowing how to buy those tubes.

They are definitely worth the price, I would like to buy some!

Jim...here's Bkockleys website. I would think you should be able to buy direct from them.

info@blockleytyre.com

Sorry, that may be an email address which would be just as effective.

Here's the actual web address of which I copied that from:

www.blockleytyre.com

Hope this helps.

Is it possible to buy Blockley tubes with a rubber stem?

Their website shows only metal stem tubes for beaded edge (clincher) tyres. The price of £29 ($40.02 USD) is about a dollar less than Coker's price for a metal stem tube. I realize that the Blockley tubes are reportedly a much better product, but if I want to use my own metal stems I would get the Hartford rubber stem tubes. Since I started paying attention to tube brands I've been using Hartfords and they have been quite satisfactory for me.

I agree with the above notes and would only use Hartford Tubes if the Blockley (metal stemmed) weren’t available.
The only other Tube I do like is the Michelin brand made in Italy. They are also 100% Butyl and even heavier than Blockley.
The downside is the Michelin suits 3 Tyre sizes! Blockley refuse the make Tubes that suit multiple Tyre sizes and as they point
out it’s about reducing inventory levels for the Stockists. In one application the Tube will be under a stretched situation and in
others possible folded being to large for the space. 30 x 3 1/2 is the mid range size noted on the box.
Alan in Western Australia

There is a rumor going around here that the Blockley tubes are also made in China and not much better.

Was that one started by the competition?

Must be a Rumour!
I have Cheapies, Hartford and Blockley Tubes here for evaluation. The Blockley wins for weight, smell, Feel and
all round quality of the product and vulcanisation of the metal stem to Tube.
It’s been manufactured to suit the 30 x 3 1/2” (not 3 sizes) and made of 100% Butyl.
Like their Tyres, the Blockley name is all over it. Yes, I believe they are made in Vietnam using Blockley moulds
that were recently reproduced. They have a QA Guy looking at every process. It doesn’t really matter where they are made
as long as they maintain the specifications. Others here have success with Hartford as they are a better bet than all the other
junk that is unfit for purpose and believe fail Australian Consumer Laws. Just my experiences
Alan in Western Australia

Japan has been making some of the finsest products available anywhere for decades now. China is catching up fast, and probably has the most modern manufacturing facilites on earth today. India has a ways to go yet, but is making progress as far as manufacturing and product quality. As for the USA, we are going to hell in a handbasket. It need not be so.

Steve, i agree with you wholeheartedly. For way too long we have suffered the consequences of the lack of quality specified by the importers of the junk tyres and tubes foisted on the captive market that we are. The tyres and tubes available to us are clearly not fit for purpose. No tyre for a modern car should crack up in a couple of years or wear out in 2000 miles. Tubes should be expected to hold air. As Alan Long mentioned, under Australian consumer law, the vendor of such items is obliged to replace them if they are not fit for purpose. His only recourse is with his suppliers, and we know how far that will go. Is it any wonder that retailers give up selling inferior products, and that their continued supply has led to the entry of Blockley into the market.

Allan from down under.

USA used to have and enforce consumer protection laws. Not these days. Replacement tires for our modern cars these days would have been illegal to sell thirty years ago! There were strict requirements for UV resistance that today's tires do not come close to meeting. The Firestone company was almost totally destroyed because of radial tires failing forty years ago. Those tires today would be the second best things one could buy for their car to drive on! Tires used to be required to last almost indefinitely without major wear or significant damage. I have many tires that are thirty to fifty years old that I wouldn't hesitate to put on a car and drive far and fast!
I kept the wheels and tires off an old nothing pickup truck (ute) that I junked for mechanical failure reasons several years ago. The tires were old, and in very good condition. I may never own another vehicle that uses that size? But if I do, I will have a full set of tires for it!

I have in the recent fifteen years seen modern size/application tires falling apart with few miles, no harmful damage, and only about five years age on them. Thirty years ago? Any company manufacturing or selling tires like that would have been required by the Consumer Protection Agency to give away millions of new tires as compensation to customers. Today? Our government tells the people to buy new tires every five years whether the tires have been used or not.

The historic exception to much of all that is the cotton cord tires used for half a century before synthetic threads made cotton cord so impractical. Water could seep into the cotton cord, and if the cotton cord had any microbiological infestation? That water seepage could activate it and cause the cotton cord to rot internally. I had an old cotton cord tire years ago that looked nearly new! But the cord had rotted so severely that I was able to rip the sidewalls with my bare hands!
Any properly made synthetic cord tire should be good for no less than thirty years baring significant damage or being literally worn out.

Wayne, you raise an interesting point re the 5 year lifespan of modern tyres. I have a local tyre dealer who is most helpful. He is not permitted to mount tyres which are over 5 years old, according to law. So any tyre I need refitted now has to be for off road/agricultural use! I can even get used tyres fitted for my ute now, as the new self propelled auger we use has the same size tyres.

Allan from down under.

USA tubes were available ten years ago. What happened? Someone must know who made them. As I recall, the one I have for a spare has no markings on the package. The Model A guys have access to the correct tire valves for their cars. Why can't a USA do the same thing? I'm not willing to buy a tube with the incorrect valve stem on it. I've been putting original USA Schrader's on tubes for over a dozen years now, and they work fine. It's too bad the repro boys can't do the same thing for our T's, as the repro Model A guys did?

Allan wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:50 pm

Wayne, you raise an interesting point re the 5 year lifespan of modern tyres. I have a local tyre dealer who is most helpful. He is not permitted to mount tyres which are over 5 years old, according to law. So any tyre I need refitted now has to be for off road/agricultural use! I can even get used tyres fitted for my ute now, as the new self propelled auger we use has the same size tyres.

Allan from down under.

We just have to work a little harder to keep the government from keeping us safe, dont we?
Arround here, I can still find good paint for a "refrigerator"

Allan wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:50 pm

He is not permitted to mount tyres which are over 5 years old, according to law. So any tyre I need refitted now has to be for off road/agricultural use!

Strewth!

Is that a State or Federal Law? Most unlike you Ockers to be that girly

I have no idea for the 5 year limit on tyre fitting. I shall ask next time I am at the shop. It may be an insurance liability thing. If that is the case, we have likely caught it from you guys.

Allan from down under.

I am not sure who is leading whom. But the whole world has been heading down a very bad "rabbit hole" for too long already. No personal or corporate integrity. Manufacturing products that are totally unfit for the use they are sold for? Governments that lie to their population while protecting criminals both lowdown and high up white collar types. "No society can long survive if built upon a foundation of lies!"

In our country, there is a major tire store chain that advertises how they are helpful to people and potential customers. They do a lot of simple things for "no charge", and if you offer a couple bucks tip? They will very politely refuse it.
I do almost all my tire service myself. However, a modern car I had about ten years ago had tires and rims that were slightly beyond my tools capability. When I got a nail in a bad spot (right on the transition between tread and sidewall), and explained the financial situation that I simply couldn't replace four otherwise good tires due to a single small nail hole, they fixed it for free.
To me, one of the benefits of a self education coupled with some college, and the business law courses I had taken, was that I already knew "why". The manager had taken care of it, and I told him I would be very happy to give him a generous tip, but I knew he would have to refuse it. He looked me straight in the eye, and said "You figured it out!" If NO money changes hands, the company (theoretically?) is not liable if the repair fails. And that means not even a few pennies tip.
A few years later, however, when I had to buy four new tires for the Ford Expedition? I went back and bought them there. I actually appreciate their solution to a legal and ethical dilemma.

Holy - Moly - major thread drift fellas !

Steve T, Drift? Perhaps. But that is the reason we haven't been able to get decent inner tubes for nearly twenty years now! So that makes it model T and inner tube related, and thread related.
Perhaps we NEED to DENMAND being treated with honesty by corporations, AND government.

I have two model Ts I cannot drive right now because I have only two inner tubes holding air, and they are over thirty years old! I bought them over ten years ago second hand.
Five of the last seven new inner tubes I bought totally failed within two years! Two of them barely hold air enough to roll a car around for a few days, maybe! I didn't buy cheap tubes. I paid good money to one of the supposedly best antique tire and tube suppliers for their better tubes!
If people do not begin to DEMAND fair and honest treatment? It will only get worse.

Correct me if I am wrong. It looks like Blockley uses Presta valves and not Schraeder valves. The Presta valve appears to have a cap on it, but nothing to cover the entire valve. Can you purchase covers for the Presta valves, or are you limited to the small caps? Maybe at a bicycle shop??

I don't quite follow the concerns over the Blockley tubes and their metal valve stems. I understand they take the old original valve stem hardware that is the same as the larger diameter Schraeder stems. I consider it way more important that the tubes hold air over any concerns about the valve stems. Then again, I use Dill sliding thread covers which fit any kind of stem, even rubber ones.

Allan from down under.

We could buy good quality USA tubes around ten years ago. What happened? I just had a situation as mentioned above originally caused by a nail. Because of local tire store problems not having a competent tire patch guy, my problem just got worse. I've had that tire off now at least four times, and at 78 years old, it ain't no fun! Yesterday, I found an old Riverside tube from way back that I installed. I'll see if it still has air in it this morning!
In the same pile, I have an old Firestone tube that is at least 40 years old. The Schrader valve stem actually goes through a wood felloe, as does the Riverside. Why did they ever change that? A quality product is what we need now. They have to be selling more tubes today than they were 30 or 40 years ago!

It looks like Blockley uses Presta valves and not Schraeder valves.

Having never heard of Presta valves, I Googled the name and did some reading. All the references to them that I read were related to bicycle use. The most significant difference I found between Schrader and Presta valve stems is that the Presta stem is narrower. But the comparison in all cases was with Schrader bicycle valve stems. From the illustrations, it appears to me that the Schrader bicycle stems are narrower than the old automotive stems, and the Presta stems are even narrower. That means that neither original nor reproduction dust covers will fit the Presta stems. I aim to look into this a bit more and see if I'm right.

I have Blockley tubes. I put balance beads in the tubes and replaced the Schrader valve with the "special" one that comes with the balance bead kit. Perfect fit!

I also installed valve stem covers that I purchased from Lang's. Also a perfect fit.

IMO, the job Blockley does attaching the valve stem to the tube is far superior to anything I could do with an original valve stem purchased at a swap meet. With the valve cover installed you can't tell the difference from the original style.

I also installed valve stem covers that I purchased from Lang's. Also a perfect fit.

I guess that means Blockley's stems are the same size as the ones currently used on other tubes.

The Blockley Tubes I have here are exactly as described on the companies describes on their web page.
The Brass Stem is beautifully installed (as others have mentioned) and is the TR383 which I believe is the Schroder number?
but either way it is 3” in length and 1/2” in Diameter. I too bought the Valve covers off Lang’s and the combination is perfect.
It’s all about the service life and confidence of safety that a quality product provides and not a Valve Stem that’s too long, short
fat or thin!
Alan in Western Australia

Thank you for that info Tim. Is that item # DC1?

Yup. DC-1 cap and RW-1 rim nut. I found some leather washers at Oshkosh and have one between the nut and the felloe and another between the cap and the nut. When installing the tube I used flaps, then a bridge washer in the space between the flap and the rim.

I put a Custom Classic tube in yesterday. Had a hell of a time getting the tire on, and I've been doing this for over 60 years! I don't see how these tubes fit three sizes of tires. Maybe that is why it was so difficult for me to mount the tire? I just went out the the garage a few minutes ago, and the tire still has air in it! What a relief.
I think Stan Lucas should approach an American tire company about making tubes, and maybe tires here in the USA again. We have got to be using more tires and tubes today than back in the sixties when you could still buy them from Montgomery Wards.

Yes, I got the bridge washers from Langs. Blockley does not supply them. I installed the tube according to this diagram:

I put a Custom Classic tube in yesterday.

I hope you got a good one. There was a run of those that were prone to splitting. I was slow to learn. I patched one seven times before I finally figured out what was going on and tossed it. I'm avoiding Custom Classics just in case any of those splitters are still in stock.

Well, there you go! Straight from “the horses mouth” so to speak. Not often do you get a reply direct from the Business Owner
(And phone call to me) As mentioned above (somewhere) I have the Michelin Tube here that Julian was referring to and yes,
it’s a heavier material but very small in “roundness” that is more like a motor bike tube and that plus the suitability to fit
three sizes of Tyres put me off it. It’s all about reducing inventory by the manufactures / stockists.
I also like the fact that the name “Blockley” is clearly marked / embedded in their products and not hiding behind
EEC or similar other useless information! Steve, thanks for posting the reply from Julian
Alan in Western Australia

I've been cutting off rubber stems for many years, and replacing them with the CORRECT size metal stems, mostly which are made by Schrader. During the T era and beyond all new tubes came with the metal stems well into the thirties. I'm not willing to accept any newly manufactured tube unless it's made exactly like the original. The Model A boys have solved the problem, and now it's up to the T boys to do the same!

I am very happy with the heavy tubes with metal stems that are made by Bloxley Tire Co. https://www.blockleytyre.com/