MTFCA Forum

I am going to look at a 1910 Model T with an open valve engine. It also has a five ball carburetor. Can you advise as to good or bad points? Such as are parts available?
Thanks,
Campbell Tellman
Beaufort, NC

1910 is a tough year, especially for anyone that hasn't already spent a fair amount of time learning a lot about model Ts. The only year that is worse is 1909! There are so many little changes, and the changes happened all year long. So many of the parts for 1910 are unique to that one year only. Forgetting the misidentified junk piles that are practically worthless? The value of a "claimed" 1910 model T in roughly intact and maybe runnable condition could be anywhere from $5000 to nearly $75,000! The difference is not only in apparent quality of restoration, but the proverbial hundred little details, what is correct parts, what isn't.
Don't get me wrong! (Happens a lot!) An early model T that isn't a hundred percent correct can still be worth a lot, and they can be very wrong and still be a great car to own and enjoy!
However, one should not want to pay $50K for a $25K car. And the difference between them are those hundred little details. And those take quite a bit of background study.
The open valve engine block itself brings up many questions. Probably nearly half all the open valve model T engine blocks are to put it bluntly, fakes. Again, Don't get me wrong. There aren't quite enough good original open valve blocks to fit every mostly real 1910 model Ts with a solid good genuine 1910 or 1909 block. The early blocks were weak, and tended to have casting flaws in them. So a solid original engine block is worth more than a repaired broken block, which is worth more than a later block carefully altered to be as close to looking right as possible, which is worth more than one quickly hacked out to pass the quick lookover. However, even the quickly hacked out one might look good enough, and actually be better if one wishes to drive and enjoy touring with the car. Again, it isn't so much about "right" or "wrong", as it is about the value or worth of the block and the car it is in.

There are just so many things, like the rear end. There were numerous changes in the housings that year. Early, mid year, or late year variations. Even 1911 or early 1912 rear housings are close enough for some people, however again, it does affect the value. Also, 1909,1910, and early 1911 rear ends had straight axles, with the wheel hub held on by a pin rather than keyed and a nut tightened onto a taper. Many 1909/'10 cars have had the straight axles replaced by later tapered axles, in part for "safety" reasons. The rear hubs CAN be altered to look correct, but many people do not go to that effort. So again, the axles could be totally correct? Or updated, but look correct to a casual observation? Or upgraded and obviously so. And again, the value is affected.

If you haven't spent the time not only learning, but understanding the differences and details? You should find someone to advise you, and look any car over with you. Even there, finding the right person to advise you could be difficult. Frankly? I do not consider myself to know enough to be considered an expert. I only know a couple people that I would consider to know that much not only about the cars, but also the current markets.

And quite frankly? MOST of the people claiming to be experts? Most of the people that sell their services as appraisers? Are idiots and clueless about the antique automobile markets. (A dozen horror stories I could tell!)
The best thing, is if one is interested enough? Join the local clubs! Meet the people, ask a lot of questions. Get a feel for who knows what they are talking about, and who doesn't. Get some hands-on experience with any model T. Get a feel for the cars, the history. Then start seriously looking for the car that is right for you.

If you haven't seen it? Another recent thread on a 1910 for sale (in this case a touring car) where issues of "right" and "wrong" parts and how it affects the value.


https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24691


Even the color can affect the value.

Given that you have a complete and all originlal 1910 car - wouldn't you be able to get most parts that gets weared at use?

And a 1910 would probably be hauled on a trailer to the events and hence not driven that much.

Do you want a show car to display or a Model T to drive? A "real" 1910 car is not a good choice for a car to drive, even on a limited basis . They are too rare, too expensive, 1910-specific parts are scarce to non-available, and they are less roadable than the later Ts. If you want to drive a T, or show and drive a T, a later model in good condition is a much better choice.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:28 am

Do you want a show car to display or a Model T to drive? A "real" 1910 car is not a good choice for a car to drive, even on a limited basis . They are too rare, too expensive, 1910-specific parts are scarce to non-available, and they are less roadable than the later Ts. If you want to drive a T, or show and drive a T, a later model in good condition is a much better choice.

That said, frankly I highly doubt there are more than 12 REAL 1910 Ts on earth. He didn't say where, so maybe he's gonna look over the T in Arizona. It would be a good buy for a fairly real '10.
Either way he has to do a good checkover especially if the price is over $30K for it.

Hello.
If your fairly new to the world of Model T’s I would suggest you find a T from 1915 - 1927.
The T’s from 17-25 are probably the most common and the parts are readily available. The 15 and 16 would be the early T’s I would want but that’s just me.

The very early Brass T’s are neat but for a fun T and a more reasonably priced fun car to learn about and drive I would suggest the 17-25 T’s first. You can always find an earlier T later and it probably won’t be a complete original.

This seller has one picture. He says it is a torpedo. As I understand it they were made in 1911 and 1912. The picture shows a two piece windshield with the bottom flipped out. I do not know the door profile but if it is a 1911 it should be round at the bottom.
The seller does not have a title but it has always transferred with a Bill of Sale. This may be why he states it is a '10. I am going to look at the car next week and I will take lots of fotos to post for your opinion.
Thanks for all your input! It is reassuring.
Campbell Tellman
Beaufort,NC

Here is a quite correct 1911 Torpedo Runabout...primary identifiers are slanted lower windshield, very short running boards and very low sides on the body
Here is a quite correct 1912 Torpedo Runabout...primary identifiers are vertical windshield, more normal length running boards and higher sides on the body
there are, of course more differences, but if the car you are looking at does not look VERY MUCH like one or the other, then it is not a TORPEDO.

Good Luck

Mr Tellman, I would strongly encourage that you contact a member of the local model T club of America that has an early T & have them go with you. As stated by others much more qualified than me, the early model Ts are very desirable but often are a collection of parts. Some correct some not. Value of course is in the eye of the beholder but that eye needs to beware. Hopefully the owner is a member that has painstakingly made the “torpedo” right. As a former caretaker of an 11 torpedo there are many items unique to the 11 and the more correct the greater value. Things that you would think to be easy to find in reality aren’t. It took me over a decade to find the correct steering column, more years than that to find the correct Saxon horn, also expensive. The steering column was a real one & expensive too but came from a reliable source that had superior knowledge of early Ts. I wish you the greatest of success in your quest and welcome to the addiction.
Best Regards, John

I'd like to offer my opinion - especially on driving an early car.

On driving... I'll speak to my experience driving my "authentic" 1910 Touring. We tour all over North America with it several thousand miles each year, and have for quite a few years now. We do so without hesitation. Incidentally, my father also has a very authentic 1910 Touring that he's driven similarly for 40 years. I prefer the 1910 Touring because it's light-weight, nimble, very comfortable, easy-starting, decent speed, great on hills, etc. There are many others that drive their 1909 and 1910's also. It just happens that most do so with the HCCA. As far as them being too rare or valuable, they're used on HCCA tours because they're easy to drive, easy to maintain, more common, and one of the least expensive brass cars.

On authenticity.... I agree with most of what has been said about authenticity. The more authentic the car, the more valuable. Most early 1909-10 parts can be found, but they're often expensive. Having said that, not every car has to be 100% correct. They're all fun!

In closing, my advice to anyone looking for a Model T - first ask yourself what you want to do with the car. Then get one you think you'll enjoy, but get the best one you can afford. If you're concerned about price, condition, and authenticity, get a trusted, knowledgeable friend to look at it with you.

...get the best one you can afford.

That costs less than buying a cheaper one, then fixing all that's wrong with it.

I agree. If you are a buying a cell phone, computer, or Model T Ford, get the best you can afford.

Is this a little red 1 that is in a museum in cabarrrus county by any chance?
If so,it had all new reproduction sheet metal put on it along with gas tank when it was "restored" .it is a 1911.