Setting the hogs head
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Topic author - Posts: 42
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:52 am
- First Name: Reuben
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Setting the hogs head
I'm getting ready to reinstall my hogs head. Motor still in car but body removed, so I have a lot of access. A thought came to me about the gaskets (not the half round felt) that fit to the pan. Could I goop up the two gaskets on the side going to hogs head, with a thin layer of Ultra Black, tape in place, then set the hogs head upright on a very flat piece of metal and allow the Ultra Black to set up. I believe that the weight of the hogs head would keep those gaskets very flat and sealed to the hogs head (once cured). Also seems to me that by doing this, I would not have to worry about them shifting during installation as they would be sealed to the hogs head. Of course I would put a good layer on the pan and felt just prior to installation. Has anyone tried this, and did it work? Thanks.
1915 Touring
1926 RAJO Speedster
1926 RAJO Speedster
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Many ideas and approaches to this.
1 smear a thin layer of "3Bond" (a grey flexible gasket material) over the pan, https://www.repco.co.nz/en/brands/three ... p/A6054970
2 place gaskets on the pan
3 smear a thin layer on the gasket
4 liberally smear and work grease (common stuff) on the felt both sides
5 lower the hogs head keeping the front raised a bit, starting at the rear then lowering the front (ensure the clutch fingers slide into the slot and the pedal shafts into the bands while lowering (there are whole threads here on how to do that with bits of string or clamps or cable ties or just down right sweat - or all of the aforementioned at once )
6 insert bolts and tighten finger tight only so as not to squeeze out the 3Bond (or your favourite goop)
7 leave for a couple of hours to make sure the 3 Bond cures
8 remember to come back and tighten the bolts fully.
Ensuring there are no leaks (the holy grail) is dependant on how true the pan is. That is not a certainty when the engine is in the car SO the 'thin' smear of goop MAY need to be a 'bit thicker' on your car. Run a straight edge along the pan edges and see how dipped and bent is is as a guide before you decide.
Cheers
Adrian
1 smear a thin layer of "3Bond" (a grey flexible gasket material) over the pan, https://www.repco.co.nz/en/brands/three ... p/A6054970
2 place gaskets on the pan
3 smear a thin layer on the gasket
4 liberally smear and work grease (common stuff) on the felt both sides
5 lower the hogs head keeping the front raised a bit, starting at the rear then lowering the front (ensure the clutch fingers slide into the slot and the pedal shafts into the bands while lowering (there are whole threads here on how to do that with bits of string or clamps or cable ties or just down right sweat - or all of the aforementioned at once )
6 insert bolts and tighten finger tight only so as not to squeeze out the 3Bond (or your favourite goop)
7 leave for a couple of hours to make sure the 3 Bond cures
8 remember to come back and tighten the bolts fully.
Ensuring there are no leaks (the holy grail) is dependant on how true the pan is. That is not a certainty when the engine is in the car SO the 'thin' smear of goop MAY need to be a 'bit thicker' on your car. Run a straight edge along the pan edges and see how dipped and bent is is as a guide before you decide.
Cheers
Adrian
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Picture perfect like above http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/121217.html
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Re: Setting the hogs head
I have a couple of extra tips which may be of use.
First, trial fit the side gaskets with no sealant. Usually they need a little trimming at the front end next to the block.
It helps to pull the back axle assembly to the rear a bit with a come-along so you can slide the 4th main back a bit to allow the hogshead to drop into place.
I used black RTV to impregnate the felt seal from both sides so in effect, you have a silicone gasket held together with felt. Don't cut the felt. Work the whole length down into its groove.
Fit the side gaskets, with sealant, holding them in place with a couple of the bolts inserted from underneath and held there with cotter pins. These can be withdrawn once the hogshead has been aligned with a couple of other bolts.
Before tightening any of the side bolts, let the back axle assembly loose and couple the four bolts around the driveshaft ball. This will draw the hogshead into alignment at the rear.
Allan from down under.
First, trial fit the side gaskets with no sealant. Usually they need a little trimming at the front end next to the block.
It helps to pull the back axle assembly to the rear a bit with a come-along so you can slide the 4th main back a bit to allow the hogshead to drop into place.
I used black RTV to impregnate the felt seal from both sides so in effect, you have a silicone gasket held together with felt. Don't cut the felt. Work the whole length down into its groove.
Fit the side gaskets, with sealant, holding them in place with a couple of the bolts inserted from underneath and held there with cotter pins. These can be withdrawn once the hogshead has been aligned with a couple of other bolts.
Before tightening any of the side bolts, let the back axle assembly loose and couple the four bolts around the driveshaft ball. This will draw the hogshead into alignment at the rear.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Please see attachment. Being patient with lots of good preparation will yield good results. Hope this helps,
Stu
Stu
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Re: Setting the hogs head
I used Permatex #2 on my car with good results. It remains pliable forever and will not set up. You can work it into the felt and it seals everything very well with no leaks. The best part is disassembly is easy when the time comes, whereas the RTV products glue everything together to the point of being bomb proof. Good luck with your project! Cheers, Bill
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Topic author - Posts: 42
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:52 am
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Thank you to everyone for the tips and advice. Hopefully get to this project in the next week or so.
1915 Touring
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1926 RAJO Speedster
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Re: Setting the hogs head
This is a tool I made to flatten the dimples in the pan from multiple attempts to stop leaks. It can be used when the hogs head is off.
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Great idea. Smart tool!
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Shirley Temple tool!
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Re: Setting the hogs head
First each set of gaskets ordered in 2021 from 2 main well liked suppliers I used for years
So make sure you get good ones
So make sure you get good ones
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Then if you unlucky you get to do it all over again
Practice my Impressions of a drunken sailor
Yes it's repairable but luckly had another one
Practice my Impressions of a drunken sailor
Yes it's repairable but luckly had another one
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Nothing "unlucky" about this, except that you had another one.
Since you took the effort to show it, for the benefit of others, as a teaching tool of what not to do, I will point them out.
1) information on the fragility of early covers is well known here. A quick google on the subject will bring up a detailed explanation of the improper thickness of the felt in relation to early hogs heads. (Original Smith) You can get away with it on the more forgiving iron covers.
2) Not any silicone is acceptable. This blue, clear, windshield or window caulk will not stand up to hot oil. Ultra black or silver will.
Those extra blue beads will soften & give your motor a case of intestinal worms. Congregating in the oil funnel. You wont know until you starved a rod.
A transmission screen may or may not add to the life of that rod.
3)Pulling down the HH is a "gentile" process of back to front. GENTILE.
4) A 110 year old, increasingly harder to find cover managed to survive, only to be permanently scarred or sent to scrap In an age where a few key strokes could have saved it.
I sincerely hope others will learn from your experience. No offence intended.
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Re: Setting the hogs head
No offense taken but many T I've built have had zero issues with blue RTV
And I've owned 39 Ts to date and worked on mny more
But with the alloy hogs head one needs to be more careful in this gap area
My other hogs head went down like it was supposed to
Hogs head in the pics already been repaired and waiting
Used a pattern to bolt it down
And I've owned 39 Ts to date and worked on mny more
But with the alloy hogs head one needs to be more careful in this gap area
My other hogs head went down like it was supposed to
Hogs head in the pics already been repaired and waiting
Used a pattern to bolt it down
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Re: Setting the hogs head
Is blue RTV different from the black variety, or is it cheaper? The red and blue colours really do look pig ugly on a T. At least the black tends to disappear from plain sight.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Setting the hogs head
I have found "worms" in old engines in oil pickup screens or blocking oil drainback passages. Use the right product, and use it carefully. Unless you're running an engine assembly production line, you can't save significant money by buying the wrong sealing product or by trying to use old product.
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Re: Setting the hogs head
The ultra black & silver have a body. Possibly aluminum powder. Way tougher stuff. Thicker & more solid.