MTFCA Forum

Posting this for a friend. He bought a 22 back in June that had been sitting for a decade or so and had no maintenance history with it. He's been slowly going thru it, dealing with issues as they arise. He's put 300 plus miles on it since he got it running, but here is the latest issue.

He recently replaced the mag post after it quit running on mag entirely, and things were good for awhile. More recently, mag performance degraded so he started investigating. Pulling the New Day timer, he found it covered with a mix of oil and what appears to be white condensate (photo 1). I should point out that he recently replaced the timing gear cover with one correct for the year, using a timing cover alignment tool and a new, modern neoprene seal. He also looked at the oil cap (photo 2), not only finding the same white junk but finding the screen to be crusted and plugged up, so he cleaned it. Our thinking is there must have been some pressure building up in the crankcase to force material past the cam seal but that doesn't explain everything.

In the FWIW department, he's had to add a lot of oil, and there is evidence that some of it has made it's way down the drive shaft into the axle. He did a cold compression check (dry) and all cylinders were at 40 PSI - this is with a low head which he knows is not correct for a 22. He has a motometer and the engine gets up to normal operating temperatures. The oil on the dipstick (yes, he has one) looks and smells normal - there is no white smoke coming out the exhaust and no sickly-sweet smell from burning antifreeze.

Since the two of us have only been tinkering with Model T's since late 2018, we'd like to hear from those of you with greater experience. Any ideas?

If it has been cold and DAMP there, white foam can show up at the oil screen and even look nasty down inside. Running the engine until it gets HOTHOTHOT will cause the condensation to evaporate. Under the assumption above, I would also say that he has run the engine a couple times for a very short period which will create more condensation and create the condition you describe.

Happened to me once in FL during a cold/damp winter and I was simply delighting in hearing my car run (for a short time!). Happened to my dad in TN once while I was there on a cold/damp day ...and he had been putzing around and starting/stopping frequently.

Let it evaporate out and then only run the thing when you intend to really take a trip.

Tim,

When he put the timer on, did he use any sort of lubrication, or was it put on dry? In other words, was everything that showed up in that timer a result of this mystery, or just the fact that it's white?

To drive accumulated moisture out of an engine, it is necessary to run it for a period of time at full operating temperature. In cold weather, and especially cold, damp weather, it will take longer than otherwise, perhaps an hour or two, maybe more under adverse conditions. Both the timer and the oil fill cap on a T are exposed to cold air during operation, and thus they tend to collect and condense moisture as it is driven out of the hot oil during engine operation. Hot water vapor from the crankcase could get into the timer and condense, and it would likely tend to collect at the mag post and inside the valve cover and transmission cover. These places are the first to collect moisture and the last to dry out. I would check to make certain that water is not getting into the crankcase from the cooling system, and I'd elevate the front of the car to assure full drainage and drain all the engine oil out into a clean receptacle and replace it with fresh oil. Then I'd wipe away all white goo that can be easily reached and take the car out for a nice long run out on the road. Additional goo may show up, but assuming you are certain that there is no coolant leaking into the crankcase, the best way to deal with that would be to gas up and keep driving. It is especially important in colder weather that you avoid starting the car at all unless you are going to drive it for at least half an hour or so at road speed. More is better. All engines produce water vapor when in operation, and all depend on engine heat to drive the moisture out of the oil and internal engine spaces. A cold engine will readily collect moisture when running. A gasoline engine makes about 3 gallons of water for every gallon of gasoline it burns. Most of the water goes out the exhaust as vapor, but not all of it. Engines with worn rings will tend to put more moisture into the oil than tight engines, but they all do it. Model Ts don't have the best crankcase ventilation, either. Absent a water leak into the crankcase, the car needs driven at road speed. In this case, I'd change the oil. Drain it, hot, then refill with fresh oil and go for a drive. Even modern, hot-running engines with PCV systems can develop white goo on oil filler caps in cold weather when used for short trips in cold weather. That is especially true if the cap is located on a filler pipe extending above the engine. If you start it, DRIVE IT, especially in cold weather or very damp, cool weather.

Jerry-the timer was put on dry. There was fog and rain during the tour where he put on the most miles. The plugged oil cap screen probably interfered with venting moisture.

Re: "The plugged oil cap screen probably interfered with venting moisture." ...... I think you are right about that. Removing the screen would prevent that. The screen fell out of my cap and most of it wound up jammed behind the timing gear. I haven't been in any hurry to replace it. Most T engines have a hole through the valve cover and block that can allow some moisture to escape. (And let dirt and bugs in) Some of the very late blocks lack the throttle rod hole. My engine has the hole in the block, but not in the valve cover. I stuffed a copper mesh pot scrubber in the area beetween the middle cylinders to act as a filter and bug excluder. A Model T running in cold weather country would probably benefit from having a road draft pipe added to the valve cover. That would substantially improve crankcase ventilation and might reduce the tendency to leak oil.