Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

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Jugster
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Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Jugster » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:28 am

Comfy Are We in a Ford Model T.jpg
Comfy Are We in a Ford Model T.jpg (43.15 KiB) Viewed 5558 times
The Model T Ford is an ergonomic nightmare. At five feet, eleven inches, I'm of average height, but the driver's seat of my brass-accoutered pride & joy is mounted so far forward, I ride with my knees high, the steering wheel rubbing my thighs and all my weight on my tailbone. If only the front settee could have been set three or four inches further aft! It must be that a hundred years ago, people were smaller.

The spacing of the brake lever and three pedals leaves little room for average size tootsies and I've gotten my shoe-laces caught in the pedals with sufficient frequency to have formed the habit of tucking them in prior to climbing aboard. Manifestly, the troublesome trio of treadles was designed to be operated by a barefoot chimp and my maladroit human feet do occasionally have difficulty playing the required game of Three-Card Monty with the stupid pedals.

The injudicious location of the parking brake lever made preposterous the installation of an actual driver-side front door, so 'just for show' is the faux door. Driver egress, consequently, requires the disembarkation of the front passenger.

Because the dummy-door on the port side doesn't open, any adjustment or lubing of the hand-brake and other mechanisms on the driver's side requires squeezing one's middle-aged girth between the jambs of the operational door on the starboard side while kneeling on the running board. Then, with the front floorboards removed, the upper-body weight of the intrepid shade-tree mechanic is supported by one hand upon sharp-edged, grit-greasy linkages, cotter pins and other flesh-assaulting impedimenta, while the across-the-frame task at hand—which requires two hands—is performed by one hand. During the execution of such awkward endeavor, one does not smoke, chew gum or even whistle because one's mouth is occupied by a mini-flashlight. While the T-technician's body is thus helplessly enmeshed, the cell-phone he left on the back seat is guaranteed to start ringing. And it will continue to do so at least until the sweat of his brow drips onto one lens of his eyeglasses and down to the tip of his nose which will itch maddeningly. Then his glasses will slide down his now lubricated schnozz, off his face entirely and onto the grease-puddled floor where, by the irresistible power of Murphy, it will come to rest directly beneath the precise dead center of the car (This works with dropped wrenches too. Every time).

Another bit of maintenance prerequisite to the first drive of the season would be accessing and servicing the twist-type oilers on the rear spring shackles. This under-the-car enterprise requires such serpentine plasticity as to helically incurvate one's upper body around the rear axle and take a grease shampoo in order to see where to insert tip of the oil-can's spout. And the chore requires three hands; one to hold the flashlight, one to hold the oiler open against the spring and one to clack the oil-can. Yup, the flashlight goes back in the mouth.

Maintenance now completed, one can go for a ride. To avoid having to lean uncomfortably far forward while driving, I've added an extension to the handle of the brake/upshift-lever. Though an improvement in that regard, when the parking brake is set, the extension gets in the way and makes it difficult to center my heel on the starter button—which of course becomes readily accessible to accidentally activate the starter any time the engine is running—to the accompaniment of strident heavy-metal orchestration.

The "Two-Man-Top," by inference of its name, tells you all you need to know about what happens to an unaccompanied individual who finds himself caught in the rain with the top down. But even with two people aboard to facilitate deployment, such engagement requires the interpersonal coordination of trapeze artists. That accomplished, the next thing is to attach the side curtains to both sides of the car, during which undertaking both parties will continue to get rain-soaked. Now the windshield must be folded down because there are no windshield wipers; and so, while the fabric curtains and top protect the intrepid wayfarers' dripping ears and saturated hats, the rain, cascading horizontally relative to the car's forward speed, hits said occupants square in the face.

Speaking of heads, most people have theirs attached to their necks, so one cannot help but wonder what sort of creature Henry had in mind when he mounted the already difficult-to-read speedometer at the feet of the front passenger.

A lengthy association with airplanes and crazy people has resulted in my becoming a devout pyrophobe, so at the end of the day, when the hot Tin Lizzie is parked in the attached garage beneath my bedroom, turning the fuel off at the carburetor will not suffice. Nay, conscientious fire-prevention requires I lay down on my back, reach across the chassis, stain the front of my shirt and turn the fuel off under the tank as well. When my wife witnesses this enactment, she is sure to remark, "If you can do that, why can't you ___________________?" {Fill in the blank with your least favorite, most strenuous, spouse-mandated household chore.}
My answer to that one is, "Hey, even a dead man can lie down!"

All of the preceding is said with tongue-in-cheek and a great big smile (more contortion), for the farcical truth is that among Brass-Era automobiles, the Model T Ford is the easiest to own, maintain and operate. I'd shake my head at that apprehension were not my neck aching from the deleterious contortion of attempting to read the aforementioned speedometer.

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:49 am

Yes, on average people were smaller. See Model T era and older theater seats. :)
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Burger in Spokane » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:11 am

By 1925, the spacious and appreciatively easier to maintain TT
closed cab provided Pullman comfort, combined with the luxury
fittings of Tiffany.

To unabashedly steal from Packard, "Ask the man who owns one".

64703687718__E062BA13-29DD-4B2B-8676-8E567DDC6251.jpg
More people are doing it today than ever before !


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by sweet23 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:54 am

Why anyone would own, let alone try to drive a model T Ford is beyond me. ,,,,,,,,,Yes I have thee of them,,,,,,,,,

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by DLodge » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:51 am

I am 5' 7" and my 1924 Touring pretty much feels like it was designed with me in mind. There aren't a lot of advantages to being shorter than average, but that is definitely one of them. :D


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by John kuehn » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:18 am

Yes Model T’s aren’t real comfortable for larger folks epically if your 6 ft and more and have size 12 shoes or larger!
When Iooking at old photos of T Tourings with 6 people in them they are always crunched up for a reason. There isn’t much room for the larger folks and they were supposedly smaller in those days!


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Bryant » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:57 am

I can’t wait to try it! Iam 6’3” size 11.5 shoe! Maybe I could rip out the front seat and sit in the back 🤣 it’s a closed car, do I need a hole in the roof for my head? Maybe a pull string for the passenger to operate the windshield wiper because I wasn’t equipped with a third hand? Haha well written! 👍
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Original Smith » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:24 am

I'm 6'3" and have been driving Model T's since I was 17. I agree there are some negative things about these cars, but I enjoy them anyway.
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by John Codman » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:35 am

DLodge wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:51 am
I am 5' 7" and my 1924 Touring pretty much feels like it was designed with me in mind. There aren't a lot of advantages to being shorter than average, but that is definitely one of them. :D
I am about 5' 9" tall but with wide feet. The steering wheel position is fine for me, but I do have to think about the pedals. My '27 does have a left front door which is primarily for easy access when servicing anything inside the passenger compartment, but is of no value for entering or exiting the car. When I bought my T I immediately noticed that the top hinge on the right side front door is badly worn, but the left front door hinges are like new, I wonder why?


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by JohnM » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:47 am

We are apparently taller, and definitely much wider these days and look at the model T with our current perspective. When I hear someone complain about the lack of roomy cushyness, I suggest they get out and ride a horse or walk! Back in the day that would have been your options. Suddenly they understand how the model T would be a much faster, and comfortable form of transportation.

Soon, all vehicles will be autonomous and some future model T owners will contemplate how demanding it is to actually DRIVE a car. Life is hard back in these old days. :D


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:56 am

I'm 6'1 with 13 W feet. It's a challenge getting in or out of a '26-27 roadster, and the pedals were evidently designed for a small monkey. I usually exit the passenger side. Once in the car, it's not too bad, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if the seat was about 4" to the rear. Of course, there's "No there, there" to move the seat back , but a custom, thin line seat backrest would be a great help. A zig-zag brake lever that moved the lever as far to the left as practical would also help by getting it away from the clutch pedal. I believe the closed cars and the earlier touring cars had more room for the driver and front seat passenger. It would have been nice if Ford had built a "Mercury" version of the Model T on a 108" wheelbase with a 30 HP engine, 3" wider and 6" longer body, and added 6" to the legroom and 2" to the hood length.

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:01 am

At six feet, George Washington was considered a very tall man.

LINCOLN_GENERALS copy.jpg
At 6'4", Lincoln towers over his generals. He's a full head taller than McClellan, and perhaps a full head smarter. :)

If you go to a museum and see a medieval suit of armor, it's likely to appear about the right size for an eleven-year-old.
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:11 am

Some of you must not seen pictures of president Cleveland or Garfield. They were very portly.
Remember this, it took a strong man to saddle up a horse and climb aboard. And a strong back to sit up on the saddle and hold the reigns. So the T is much more comfortable than riding a horse. It is also faster, at least can go faster for longer distances than a horse.
I have a letter written by my great grandmother to my grandmother explaining why my great grandfather had to use a cane. He was unhitching a buggy when the horse started moving which knocked him over and he broke his knee. The rest of his life he used a cane.
And there were also larger cars available for those who were bigger, and maybe instead of using all their money to buy food, they could use it to buy a car! :lol:
Anyway, the 26-27 door is too narrow for most to get in putting their foot around the brake lever while the knees are under the steering wheel and their rear cushion is over the arm rest. The Canadian cars came with doors on both sides. So there were even earlier some cars with both doors.
Anyway, I can still drive Model T's and as long as I am able, plan to keep on going.
Norm

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by ironhorse » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:14 am

Took My little brother for a ride in the roadster once at 6'6" had to put the top down so he didn't bang his head on the top bow. :D
Do it right or do it over,your choice. Drive like everyone is out to get you!

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by TWrenn » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:20 am

My only complaint is how hard it is to reach the pedals of my 11 Torpedo! Even with a 2" block on the low pedal, its a bit of a stretch. The other 2 pedals are fairly do-able.


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Dropacent » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:31 am

Timmy, I will forever think of you now when I see”oh brother,where art thou “ again!

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:58 am

war
Some of you must not seen pictures of president Cleveland or Garfield. They were very portly.

Yes, they were, and farther from average than they would be today. Cleveland at 5'11" and Taft at 6' were also tall for their time. The town of Shafter was named for Civil War and Spanish-American War general William Shafter, who by 1898 weighed over 300 pounds. Again, very far from average of the time.

SHAFTER.png
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by DHort » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:28 pm

That poor horse.


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:50 pm

He needed a Percheron!


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Russ T Fender » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:24 pm

You have to be a contortionist to get in and out of the drivers seat in a Centerdoor. And when you finally get in you sit slightly offset from the steering wheel! Not very comfortable, even for an average sized driver.


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by JohnM » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:01 pm

Just got back from a comfy 25 mile ride in my 26 touring! It was sunny and 38 degrees. Nothing against equestrians or race walkers, but it wouldn't have been as much fun on a horse or walking and I probably wouldn't be back yet. Life is good! :) :)

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Oldav8tor » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:59 pm

I got lucky in my choice of a T. A previous owner had re-upholstered the front seat without the back springs and I followed suit when I re-did the upholstery. It looks fine but gives me a little more room. I'm a big guy, 6'1" tall with 14 EEEE feet. Due to injuries a few years back at the hands of a 1953 Ford tractor I have difficulty driving a regular stick shift car. Surprisingly, I find my 1917 Touring one of my easiest cars to drive and it is only a minor struggle to get into. I did add extenders to the pedals to accommodate my big clods and an extension on the lever. I don't think I could fit comfortably behind the wheel in just any T, especially those with larger steering wheels.

When on tour, if it's just my wife and I she usually rides in the back....more room and comfort for both of us - especially on a hot day.
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by TWrenn » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:17 pm

Dropacent wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:31 am
Timmy, I will forever think of you now when I see”oh brother,where art thou “ again!

:lol:

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by JohnH » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:27 pm

I'm 6'2 and fit perfectly in my 26 tourer. In fact it's so comfortable and easy to drive I often feel like going to sleep in it. The T's I find uncomfortable are those with modified seats.


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:51 am

A person's standing height is not comparable to others of the same height. I am 5'8" and when he was living, my father was 6' tall. But when we sat side by side on a bench, I sat a few inches higher than he. Some people have a long torso and others have long legs. Some have both torso and legs long.
So each person must try a T to see how it fits him or her self.


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by JohnM » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:09 pm

You are so right Norman. At six foot, I have a longer torso and shorter legs. I had a 27 Tudor with the header above the windshield. I had to duck and slouch to see where I was going. I now have a 26 touring that I fit in perfectly.


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Jim Eubanks » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:40 pm

I have to bend over to get into my wife's Toyota pu. My t's have their personality's but I am very confident with a T that uses coils and unless you break a crankshaft or axle they will get you home without worry about some sort of electronic gismo failure. I dou'bt any of these plastic and electronic wonders will be around even fifty years from now!


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:51 pm

25th cropped.jpg
Notice the closest car, A Maroon 1923. The owner of that car is over 6' tall and he put extensions on his windshield posts to raise the front of the top so he won't bump his head. Another owner who is quite tall has a 27 and he tied down the springs and also leaned the top of the front seat a few inches toward the back. So although the seats are not made for adjustment, things can be altered a bit to give a little more room.
Norm

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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by aDave » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:06 pm

Hey Bob,
Good to see you back and posting some of your "stress-relieving" posts.
Now that the cold and snow - and soon to be salt is arriving, perhaps you'll be more housebound and have the time to treat us to more of your prose.
Good Health to you!

Dave


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by tdump » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:51 pm

I have a issue with my feet and the pedals to.
So I have found that my old boots come in handy.
Something like these except my are double H brand
https://gem.app/product/vintage-texas-i ... oe-western
If you can't help em, don't hinder em'


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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by KeithG » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:00 pm

Hi Bob, Thank you for another thought provoking article.

Keith
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Luxford » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:27 pm

The problems with the Ford USA bodies was quickly spotted by a lot of different people as early as 1910-12. The style was described as "ugly" by some here in Australia and the chassis were purchased instead and fitted with a better designed and comfortable body.

The bodies were usually longer, and wider (so were some Canadian built bodies) the gas tank was often removed from under the seat and placed at the back of the car so the seat could be made lower and moved further back. and then finished to a higher quality.

Many companies sold their own designed bodies to put on Fords as they did in every country. In Australia you could have the body built to suit yourself
so often for a bit more money you could have it tailored to suit your personal taste. All the different Depot Hack style bodies I/m sure could be supplied with a far better seating position for the driver especially if the owner had purchased it with a special purpose body for his business.

Ford sold the chassis separately so this could be done, it was not compulsory to only purchase the basic factory model. When you bought a Ford you bought the chassis mechanics. Many thousands of Model T's spent all their life with far better more comfortable and more stylish bodies than the Factory one.

A better solution if you have trouble with the body on your T would be to sell the car (or its body) and replace it with one of the thousands of more unusual and more comfortable styles that there were. Maybe even plan to make a few design changes so problems you have working on it are eliminated. Such changes would render your new non factory T far more saleable in the future, as the Factory version has many examples if that is what someone wants. Here are some Ausssie designs.
Attachments
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Duey_C » Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:13 am

Peter, one can see the extra room in the Australian bodies! Ahhhh.
Bob, I started reading and thought who’s this. I looked and was also glad to see it was you writing.
I told myself, this’ll be good! :-) It is. Thought provoking text and feedback for me.

I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask.
Oldav8tor Tim, would you show a pic or two of your 17 Touring front seat back?
I cruised the 18 Runabout lately with my Custom Cardboard upholstery and was reminded how the forward-tilted seat back spring pushes on me. Quite wrongly for this body.
At 6-3 the Runabout isn’t bad but that seat back... Ugh.
Is this OK to ask?
Ira’s beautiful 17 Touring was at my disposal a few years ago but I didn’t pull that trigger to check the fit.

We can compress the seat (bottom) spring to place us a little lower when reupholstering but the seat back?
Tie those springs back?
Neat thread!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


martinola
Posts: 18
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Last Name: Kauper
Location: Covina, CA

Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by martinola » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:15 am

Steve Jelf wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:01 am
At six feet, George Washington was considered a very tall man.


LINCOLN_GENERALS copy.jpg
At 6'4", Lincoln towers over his generals. He's a full head taller than McClellan, and perhaps a full head smarter. :)

If you go to a museum and see a medieval suit of armor, it's likely to appear about the right size for an eleven-year-old.
Steve,
I submit that President Lincoln would never have driven a Model T. Henry Ford built a car specifically for him. ;)

-Martin


hollanbl
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Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:22 pm
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Last Name: Hollan
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Roundabout
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by hollanbl » Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:50 pm

Wow!

Don't sugar coat it, tell us how it really is... LOL

Brad H


Norman Kling
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:31 pm

The first picture is easy to fix. Either wear velcro fastener shoes or loafers.
The picture of Abraham Lincoln with his army. Although he was quite tall, he emphasized it by wearing a very tall hat.
Norm


ModelT46
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by ModelT46 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:48 pm

Look at the picture of Lincoln and his generals. to the far right is a man standing by himself. That is Co. George Custer. He was a temporary Brigader General at that time.

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Oldav8tor
Posts: 1915
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Oldav8tor » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:53 pm

Sorry Duane - I just saw your request for a photo of the seats in my '17. I'm kicking myself for not taking better photos. I replaced the springs with a piece of plywood to stiffen the back, the only holes I added were to mount a robe rail to the back of it. The attached photo shows the installation before I put the final edge trim on. You'd have to look closely to realize there was no coil springs in the front seat back. Just a little extra fiber-fil. The rear does have a full set of springs and with it's greater width and higher seat back is the more comfortable of the two seats. My wife often chooses to ride in the back on a tour....especially if it's warm. It gets pretty cozy up front. :lol:

IMG_1434.jpg
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor

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Duey_C
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Duey_C » Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:56 am

There's no sorry needed here! Heck, I'm late in looking here and at the notice email! :)
Absolutely perfect information Tim. Thank you sir!
I'm pleased as punch. It's so SIMPLE of a fix, I feel silly not thinking of it! Plus, I KNOW you've mentioned this before. :oops:
Like some bug spray: "Spring Be Gone"... :lol:
Sorry, can't keep from laughing about this. You made my day much brighter!
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated

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Oldav8tor
Posts: 1915
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Re: Comfy are We in a Ford Model T

Post by Oldav8tor » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:33 am

Duane,
Glad you got a laugh out of it....these days we need more laughter. I should add that the steel channel that surrounds the tack strip on the back of the seat was in bad shape so i replaced it with some aluminum channel I got at a hardware. I sprayed it with zinc chromate to reduce the chance of steel / aluminum corrosion. on The inside I Installed a piece of aluminum angle over the top of the plywood piece overlapping the top flange of the seat and the tack strip. I used a few T-nuts and machine screws instead of only wood screws to hold it together. I also used T-nuts and machine screws to attach the robe rail thru the seatback and the plywood piece. When I was done, the back was well supported. A little extra padding and it was good to go. I'm happy with the result and there is plenty of room behind the wheel.

Good luck!
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor

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