MTFCA Forum

I have a 1924 Tudor that's hard to start. Car runs great once its started. Has fully charged battery, plenty of gas and rebuilt coils. Starter turns over very slowly and gets hot as does the starter switch, not like my Model A that spins right over. I'm thinking the starter may need brushes or the battery cables are too small or I've got a marginally bad battery shut off switch, or maybe a combination of all three. Any other ideas of where I should start looking ?? thanks, Bruce

First question would be if the starter has ever been off of the car since you’ve had it. If it hasn’t that would be the first thing I would rebuild if it hasn’t been.
Probably needs new brushes , bearings and the armature cleaned up at least. After many many years of oil, grease and wear it would be the time to do it.
It could be the wiring but a rebuilt starter is a must if you have a Model T.

Bruce, first post so you may be new to T's? if you remove the starter, first take off the bendix before the 4 screws that take the starter off to avoid damaging the magneto.

Thanks for the replies so far. Yes, I'm new to the Model T world but have had my two Model A's for 60 and 55 years. (that dates me !!). What does it take to rebuild the starter switch ?? I've never had it apart. Thanks for the tip about the bendix...

Since your new to Model T’s have you gotten the Ford service manual? T’s are different in some ways from Model A’s so the manual will definitely help. The Model A owner who bought the 25 T Fordor that I had said he was going to have to rethink how T’s works since he was use to Model A’s. Not saying you can’t figure them out but just repeating what some Model A owners have told me.
Manuals for the electrical system are readily avaliable from the T suppliers as well of all aspects of the car. Go the home page than go to the resources page for them and parts catalogs from the part suppliers.
You will find lots of help here of course but the manuals and parts catalog will definitely get you quickly familiar.
It’s quite possible there is some contact problem with the starter switch but if your starter has brush issues and etc it could a combination of both now if the starter is “dragging” and drawing lots of current to get it to turn which in turn causes the contacts in the foot switch to start getting to hot. There are copper strip contacts in the original switchs and they eventually do burn thin after years of getting to hot. Good luck and welcome to the T world!

Before you take the starter off...
Be sure you have good clean connections at the battery, ground at the frame and the proper gauge wires are used from the battery to the switch and to the starter and the ground cable.
6V does not like a smaller gauge wire like used on a 12V system.

If the starter itself gets hot it probably has bad bushings allowing the armature to drag, which causes it to turn slowly and draw too much current, which causes the other parts of the system to overheat. The starter motor should not get hot after cranking for up to 10 seconds or so. Most any starter will begin to overheat after 15-20 seconds of cranking. If your engine is in fair shape and in good tune, it should start in second or two.

brkile wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:33 pm

Thanks for the replies so far. Yes, I'm new to the Model T world but have had my two Model A's for 60 and 55 years. (that dates me !!). What does it take to rebuild the starter switch ?? I've never had it apart. Thanks for the tip about the bendix...

To properly provide an answer to you problem it would help to eliminate solution assumptions. The reason is that many Model T's have owner modifications; changing to a 12 volt battery but nothing else; buying an after market starter switch; cranking duration over 10 seconds etc..
Also a picture of the "starter switch" would help there are several styles but doubt that's the issue. The internals can be seen in this link http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1475270003
If it were me I would focus on the starter

Your Model T starter is arranged very much like the Model A system, except the starter switch is not mounted on the starter. Your T should have heavy cables of good quality, same as the Model A, a good quality battery, and all connections must be clean and tight. If you have a battery disconnect, it could have problems, as could any connection in the system, including the engine grounding to the frame. If your problem was isolated to one point, such as a battery connection or the starter switch, I would expect that particular item to heat up. If everything heats up, assuming you're not grinding on the starter for extended periods of time, that suggests a starter issue.

I would start (no pun) by performing a voltage drop test from the positive terminal of the battery to the starter terminal post. This will likely take two people and one very long test lead. The normal voltmeter lead should be long enough to reach the battery terminal, the long lead to the starter post. Have someone press the starter switch and see what you have for a voltage reading. Standard practice is to allow .1 volt for each connection between the starter and the battery. Since you have typically four connections (battery post, two at the starter switch, and one at the starter) you should have a maximum voltage reading while cranking of .5 volts or even a little less. If the voltage reading is higher then that, you will have to track down where the voltage loss is. I would use a digital VOM due to it's high internal resistance.

Hard to say without knowing what you have got, a recent ground up professional restoration, older amature restoration, or a barn find. At almost 100 years the best solution may be a complete starting system electrical restoration. Send the starter and generator out for rebuilds, new cables, ground strap, etc., perhaps the entire vehicle wiring is due for replacement. OEM Ford starter switch when in good condition are way better then a modern reproduction. OEM starter and generators when properly rebuilt are very reliable and should give another 50 + years of good service. A Ford bendix is almost bullet proof and easy to find replacemets, but is not interchangeable with the model A bendix and spring. A cut off switch, well some people like them, some do not, just one more variable in your equation. My preference is a 1/2 inch open end wrench.

Remember to remove the bendix to avoid hang up upon removal.