MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:57 pm**

What year/years did FoMoCo of CANADA make a Torpedo Runabout as well as a Commercial Delivery Car (pie wagon)? I would guess 1911-1912. I have a black and white advertisement clipped from a Canadian Rod and Gun magazine, advertising the Torpedo Runabout and mentioning the full line of Ford cars available and their prices. Strangely, I don't find the year mentioned in the ad. I added a scan of the ad to my original post. Unfortunately, I accidentally down loaded it 4 times. I hope it doesn't show up 4 times with the post. I have tried to correct this, including just deleting the entire post, but the forum won't let me correct or delete. My apologies for the screw up.

Posted: **Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:29 pm**

Les Schubert , Any ideas?

Posted: **Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:04 pm**

Dang, I can't believe no Canadians are on the forum, or know the answer to this question !

Posted: **Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:17 pm**

You'd be surprised Terry. One of the administrators who set up this forum Is Chris from Alberta. He and others from there have attended many of our national tours. And there are others who live in the States, who have Canadian cars including some right here in San Diego.
Norm

Posted: **Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:39 pm**

Norman Kling wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:17 pm
You'd be surprised Terry. One of the administrators who set up this forum Is Chris from Alberta. He and others from there have attended many of our national tours. And there are others who live in the States, who have Canadian cars including some right here in San Diego.
Norm

Oh, I know, Norm. I regularly communicate with Bruce Compton. he is a fine, stand up guy and he has been very helpful to me. I kind of wrote, "Dang" my earlier post, 'in jest'. I just thought I'd get a quicker reply to my post. As soon as I get my printer to scan, I'll post the ad to the forum. Also, many months ago, possibly over a year, I mentioned on the forum that I had several pre-Model T ads cut from magazines. The are genuine Ford ads from the original magazines, not reprints. One even features the SIX cylinder Model K. I will post them when the scanner works for me.

Posted: **Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:30 pm**

Terry,

(Note it is late and I am having troubles getting the photos to post where I want them to post. Therefore -- you will need to sort of read the text and put the correct photo with the correct text. I appologize for that but I need to stop.)

You mentioned:

Strangely, I don't find the year mentioned in the ad.

I think that would often be the case. Why? First, because the magazine or newspaper would have the date on the page and folks could easily see what the year was. And to a lesser extent because Ford in general didn't care as much about a yearly new model as General Motors who really helped to introduceand establish that practice.

Below is a Canadian advertisement from 1921. We know that because the Canada Science and Technology Museum , de Bondt Collection at: http://www.canadiancar.technomuses.ca/e ... t/ads#main said it came from the Maclean’s Magazine
15 March 1921. Note it does not have an actual date or year in the advertisement.

Below is another Canadian advertisement -- this one from the 1 May 1918 Farmer’s Magazine -- again from the Canada Science and Technology Museum. And again with no date on the advertizement.

And of course a dealer could use an advertisement from the previous year and many folks would not notice the difference. For example a 1921 advertisement or illustration of a Model T used in an advertisement for a 1922 -- they look virtually the same to most of us.

Note I am not aware of a great source for dating model changes for the Canadian Model T Fords. Sometimes they made changes before the USA (for example Ford of Canada apparently introduced the slant windshield and one man tops several years before the USA production offered them). And in other cases they didn't change until years after the USA production made a change -- for example Ford USA used the ribbed clutch, reverse & brake pedals during part of the 1915 production and then discontinued them. Ford of Canada continued to use the ribbed pedals well into the 1920s.

I tried looking through a Ford Canadian sales brochure that Alex Brown kindly provided back in 2010. So far I have NOT seen any date on the brouchure. Alex called it a 1912 -- and from the body styles -- if they were close to the same time frame as the USA Model Ts -- that would be correct. Below is the Torpedo Runabout from that brochure:

And below is a Delivery Car from the same brochure:

But if you look on page 112 & 113 of Bruce McCalley’ s book “Model T Ford” you will find those same two illustrations. So it is very likely that Ford Canada just used the same illustration that Ford USA had produced. (The tire valve stem on the right front wheel is in the same location – I didn’t double check everything – but I suspect that is the case.) And yes, the USA cars are 1912s. And as Bruce stated on page 113, “These illustrations are, of course, touched up artist’s renditions of photographs, and may not reflect the cars as they were actually built.”

And I do not know if Ford of Canada did or did not have a T similar to the USA styled 1911 Torepdo roadster that had the 2 inch longer hood, lower seats, longer steering column, curved fenders front and back etc.

We look forward to your being able to scan your advertisements.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Posted: **Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:39 pm**

Canadian Torpedo's were discussed as early as 2009 http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80 ... 1260047150

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1309543879
By David Chantrell - Adelaide, Australia on Monday, July 04, 2011 - 03:52 pm:
Here is the same "Saxon" horn on Andrew's lovley 1911 Canadian Torpedo from Victoria. It can leak oil in my shed any day of the week...Dave C.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1375607675
By John Stokes on Saturday, August 03, 2013 - 04:47 pm:
The so-called 'mother-in-law' car was referred to by Ford of Canada as the "Commercial Roadster", as distinct from the 2-seater "Runabout". Those names come from the Ford of Canada catalogues up to 1912.
The I understand Ford of Canada dropped the "Delivery Van" body style, and made available the bare "Chassis". Quite possibly I am wrong but I do not believe NZ or Australia was building "Colonial" bodies until the availability of bare chassis. There may have been a few aborations to that, but not a trend, I believe.
At that early stage, I wonder if the use of the word 'standard' in the advertising is to differentiate between various body styles coming in from Ford of Canada. The 'standard' models may have been the standard "Touring Car" (as opposed to, say, a "Tourabout") and a "Runabout" (as opposed to, say, a "Commercial Roadster"). Certainly the descriptions of the 'standard' cars given in the adverts that Mark has posted would indicate that as the case.
Of course, the names "Touring Car" and "Runabout" were also standard motor industry titles (not exclusive to Ford) for those body styles, and may have been used loosely.
I hope this is seen as helpful in your search for the truth.
Best wishes,

Posted: **Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:05 pm**

Terry,

I could view your attachment that is a PDF format and I made some "snippets" to show what it looked like. They are posted below:

What year/years did FoMoCo of CANADA make a Torpedo Runabout as well as a Commercial Delivery Car (pie wagon)? I would guess 1911-1912.

The Torpedo Roadster that is shown in the Canadian advertisement is the earliest 1912 style Torpedo Roadster used in the earlies 1912 USA catalogs. See page 112 of Bruce McCalley's "Model T Ford" where Bruce shows 3 different illustrations of the 1912 USA style Torpedo Roadster. The earliest one has the two piece dash and the fore door which is lower than the seat section side panel. Also the double-twist horn with the bulb outside the body. It is the same illustration displayed in Bruce's book, the Canadian Catalog illustration I posted earlier in this thread, and in the advertisement you posted. The valve stems are in the exact same locations, they all have the two-piece dash, double twist horn, horn tube outside of the body etc.

The Canadian advertisement that you posted also has the Delivery Car listed for sale. That was a one year only body style in the USA of 1912 (with 513 listed as produced in the beginning of the 1913 fiscal year - but they were left over 1912 models produced in the later part of calendar year 1912. Ref: Bruce McCalley - page 141 "Model T Ford." )

Based on that and "ASSUMING" that Ford of Canada followed a similar production year -- the advertisement would have been for the 1912 Canadian Fords and NOT the 1911 & 1912 Canadian Fords.

In the top right hand corner of the advertisement you posted, it has 11 / 12 penciled in. It would be nice to know if that was the date of the magazine. If you have additional information on when the magazine was published and if they tended to put a future date (most magazines today do that) or if they used an actual date it came out like newspapers do.

Thank you for the note and I hope this helps narrow down the date for you.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:14 am**

Hap_Tucker wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:05 pm
Terry,

I could view your attachment that is a PDF format and I made some "snippets" to show what it looked like. They are posted below:

Torpedo - part 1 - Terry Wood.JPG

Torpedo - part 2- Terry Wood.JPG

Torpedo - part 3 - Terry Wood.JPG

What year/years did FoMoCo of CANADA make a Torpedo Runabout as well as a Commercial Delivery Car (pie wagon)? I would guess 1911-1912.
The Torpedo Roadster that is shown in the Canadian advertisement is the earliest 1912 style Torpedo Roadster used in the earlies 1912 USA catalogs. See page 112 of Bruce McCalley's "Model T Ford" where Bruce shows 3 different illustrations of the 1912 USA style Torpedo Roadster. The earliest one has the two piece dash and the fore door which is lower than the seat section side panel. Also the double-twist horn with the bulb outside the body. It is the same illustration displayed in Bruce's book, the Canadian Catalog illustration I posted earlier in this thread, and in the advertisement you posted. The valve stems are in the exact same locations, they all have the two-piece dash, double twist horn, horn tube outside of the body etc.

The Canadian advertisement that you posted also has the Delivery Car listed for sale. That was a one year only body style in the USA of 1912 (with 513 listed as produced in the beginning of the 1913 fiscal year - but they were left over 1912 models produced in the later part of calendar year 1912. Ref: Bruce McCalley - page 141 "Model T Ford." )

Based on that and "ASSUMING" that Ford of Canada followed a similar production year -- the advertisement would have been for the 1912 Canadian Fords and NOT the 1911 & 1912 Canadian Fords.
Thanks, Hap. I'll have to make sure all my future attachments are jpeg and not pdf.
In the top right hand corner of the advertisement you posted, it has 11 / 12 penciled in. It would be nice to know if that was the date of the magazine. If you have additional information on when the magazine was published and if they tended to put a future date (most magazines today do that) or if they used an actual date it came out like newspapers do.

Thank you for the note and I hope this helps narrow down the date for you.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:19 am**

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:14 am

Hap_Tucker wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:05 pm
Terry,

I could view your attachment that is a PDF format and I made some "snippets" to show what it looked like. They are posted below:

Torpedo - part 1 - Terry Wood.JPG

Torpedo - part 2- Terry Wood.JPG

Torpedo - part 3 - Terry Wood.JPG

What year/years did FoMoCo of CANADA make a Torpedo Runabout as well as a Commercial Delivery Car (pie wagon)? I would guess 1911-1912.
The Torpedo Roadster that is shown in the Canadian advertisement is the earliest 1912 style Torpedo Roadster used in the earlies 1912 USA catalogs. See page 112 of Bruce McCalley's "Model T Ford" where Bruce shows 3 different illustrations of the 1912 USA style Torpedo Roadster. The earliest one has the two piece dash and the fore door which is lower than the seat section side panel. Also the double-twist horn with the bulb outside the body. It is the same illustration displayed in Bruce's book, the Canadian Catalog illustration I posted earlier in this thread, and in the advertisement you posted. The valve stems are in the exact same locations, they all have the two-piece dash, double twist horn, horn tube outside of the body etc.

The Canadian advertisement that you posted also has the Delivery Car listed for sale. That was a one year only body style in the USA of 1912 (with 513 listed as produced in the beginning of the 1913 fiscal year - but they were left over 1912 models produced in the later part of calendar year 1912. Ref: Bruce McCalley - page 141 "Model T Ford." )

Based on that and "ASSUMING" that Ford of Canada followed a similar production year -- the advertisement would have been for the 1912 Canadian Fords and NOT the 1911 & 1912 Canadian Fords.
Thanks, Hap. I'll have to make sure all my future attachments are jpeg and not pdf.
In the top right hand corner of the advertisement you posted, it has 11 / 12 penciled in. It would be nice to know if that was the date of the magazine. If you have additional information on when the magazine was published and if they tended to put a future date (most magazines today do that) or if they used an actual date it came out like newspapers do.

Thank you for the note and I hope this helps narrow down the date for you.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Thanks, Hap. I'll have to make sure all my future attachments are jpeg and not pdf.

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