MTFCA Forum

The one I found is a Canadian with à C to begin the vin number. Originally a touring and it has à Wood firewall. Is this how it should be ? All the pics of 24 I found have Steel.

Claude,

To properly determine the year of a T, a person needs to look at many of the "build" items and not just the engine number. Many licensing agencies require a number and do not care about the actual year of the vehicle itself. With these cars and trucks being 100 years old, a great many of them have replacement engines in them. When the replacment engine was installed, effectively, that changed the year of the vehicle as far as a licensing agency is NOW aware of. As an example, our Center Door Sedan is a 1923 by the engine number, but looking at the running board braces/brackets and the drive line spool, the car is clearly a late 1919 (since it has some 1919 parts) or an early 1920 (since it has some 1920 parts). Depending on your licensing agency, you may have to license per the engine number OR they may allow you to license per the parts proven year. There are ways to ensure your car is licensed as the year you want it to be if you're so inclined.

Welcome to the forum. Glad to have a new member.

Take a few pictures of the car and post them here on the forum. You can get a pretty good idea of what the car is from here.
The wood firewall was used up to 1921 and the steel firewalls were used on the late 22 cars onward in the American cars. It could be the car your looking at has an earlier T engine in a later T. T engines would interchange or it could be another change was made. After 100 years different things could have occurred. But if it has a good clear title that’s a big plus and it may not be that much to worry about. Most people wouldn’t know the difference anyway!

The registration number is from the FRAME accordding to owner and is the same as engine.

The registration number is from the FRAME accordding to owner and is the same as engine.

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Godabitibi wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:17 am

The one I found is a Canadian with à C to begin the vin number. Originally a touring and it has à Wood firewall. Is this how it should be ? All the pics of 24 I found have Steel.

Given the fact that as a general rule Model T's were assembled at the Factories to consume previous year inventory, when applicable, before using the latest production parts - you'll find lots of discussion on what a particular model year "should be" versus how one was actual factory assembled. Title information is intended to prove ownership, period. To trust it as evidence of actual model and year should always be suspect. The make, model and year can be relatively close to what a car is but never considered as absolute evidence. That fact that you have a matching frame & engine number is in itself a unique occurrence and it will help to determine facts about tour T if you provide a picture of it from the engine block also what made in ... says). This will confirm the engine date, not necessarily the rest of the Model T. There are several of the usual minor modifications made that are easily visible besides the firewall (fuel tank sediment bow, battery box, terminal strip & wiring, inlet hose, Nuts/bolts) but not to worry about those. Most of the pictures (undercarriage, frame, body, gas tank, hood, radiator shell, wheels, tires, etc look remarkably clean, almost new looking, but don't seam to go along with the rear fender picture. While some of what I said may sound defeating, I'd say you have an excellent package to do the restoration you want to do. As far a the firewall, just get a steel one and forget about if it could have had one. Original wood firewalls were planks joined together and had a veneer glued front and back. They were not anything like today's plywood. So this is one way to tll if the firewall is even an original (not meaning to the car).
Good discussion about Canadian Firewalls
https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... ll#p190274

The hood shelves are the type used up till mid 23, indicating that it is a low radiator car and not a 24. The really nice looking bed appears to be Model A rather than T, to which Model T fenders have been adapted rather cleverly.
Ralph

Well, I vote you by it for the cool vintage fishing poles.

Your T looks pretty good. Authentic as far as what people would do back in the T and A era.
The previous owner from way back when made a good utility vehicle out of a Touring. If the car has the earlier style engine in it it will have 2 separate valve chambers on it. You can tell if it has 2 valve covers instead of the later engines that had 1 long chamber. The earlier engines up until around 21 had the 2 chambers. It could be it still as the engine originally in it.
The body does look like a 23 low cowl car.
If you have a clear title I wouldn’t try to correct it as far as the paperwork goes.
Depending on the paticular DMV you use you could be opening a can of worms if you get the wrong guy helping you. It happens here in the states from time to time. Giving them to much information isn’t always good.

The car also has had the fuel sediment bulb replaced on it. This one has a glass fuel sediment bowl put on it. Older Ford tractors used these. I have a 54 NAA Ford tractor that has one just like that. The original T Ford bulb was solid brass with a screw in filter on the side. You can these in the Ford T parts suppliers catalogs. As far as the firewall is concerned you can get a correct steel low cowl firewall for around 50-70$. The parts houses like Lang’s has original used T parts and they may have one. Call them to see.

Godabitibi wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:39 pm

The registration number is from the FRAME accordding to owner and is the same as engine.

I'm very far from an expert but I thought that they didn't start putting numbers on the frame until 26-27 ish. Was this just on american cars? My 27 has the matching frame/engine number but my buddies 26 does not have a frame number.

If it has the the engine no. on the the title and both are the same that’s where it should be. A previous owner must have added the same number on the frame. I don’t think it was done that way from the factory. The important thing is that it’s the same number on the title.

According to the Canadian sourced cars we have, that car is a 22-23 model. As mentioned, it has the low hood style hood shelf panels. This is consistent with a low radiator car, as is the wooden firewall. The pressed steel running board brackets came to us in 1922 so it is not earlier than 1922. The horn mounted on the firewall is earlier. It is where the magneto horn was mounted. A 22-3 model would normally have a battery horn mounted about the side water outlet.

Allan from down under.

The 1924 had a steel firewall. If it is a low radiator the wood firewall is interchangeable with the steel firewall but use different mounting brackets to the frame. The 1924 model year did not have a low radiator.

As you can see here the serial number is C459XXX so it is canadian. Also the head has the "made in canada".

Owner is now not sure if he still want to sell. Sellers remorse

Good, walk away and dont look back. No, dont walk, run.

The latest pictures seem to point to a cross over year for some of the parts (consume the old before using new inventory) So if the the firewall isn't modern plywood it could be correct. You need to realize that assembly methods then were happenstance. The engine serial number puts the ENGINE as an early 1924 as does the casting date on the engine. However, the box on top of the generator could be a cut-out or a modified voltage regulator (VR solenoid removed) or a VR to work with a modified T generator to be a 2 brush. Then the appearance of the goop oozing from the head, DIY gasket, puts this car's workmanship as a mechanical risk. Way to much going on that could result in $$$
and as Humblej said "Good, walk away and don't look back. No, don't walk, run.)

Why run away ? What is so wrong with it ?
All together and well running and not rust.
What is the value as it is ?

To me, it's a $4000 car all day long. I don't care one way or another that it's a cut-off, but that DOES affect its resale value, since it affects the number of people who will want it in the future.

Whether it's hauled out from under a manure pile or straight out of a non-T restoration shop, a running T will invariably need $1000+ to make it right. That is a number borne from experience, being the guy who used to put them right...

If it is priced right, leaves you with some spending cash to fix what pops up, and the guy changes his mind back...well, welcome to the hobby

As far as the head goop goes, I saw that too...is probably some over-the-hill (at the time) Indian Head gasket shellac applied to the head gasket. If it runs with no knocks, and doesn't overheat or lose water mysteriously, then it is a typical T crap-shoot. Sometimes they are reliable as all get-out when bought that way, and sometimes they'll drive you crazy. Be prepared for either case when purchasing ANY T.