'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

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Caswell
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:54 pm

As boattails go I favor Mercury like Andy's and this green one. Yep I guess the thread has petered out.
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merc green.jpg

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AndyClary
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by AndyClary » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:25 pm

That speedster photo was taken in Kanab, it had lost that grill slat on the way to Coral Sands. Also made 48 and change horse power on the dyno. Years later was stolen along with truck and trailer in Albuquerque.

Andy

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:26 pm

Rear axle truss accessory
truss 1.jpg
truss 4.jpg
Attachments
truss 3.jpg
truss 2.jpg
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:52 pm

Have to say that's the first time I've noticed that rod on Frank Kulick's 107.8mph car
Now I'm going to be looking for something else.


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:04 pm

Also have to add the Paco as nice boat tail.
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bluepeco.JPG
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:05 pm

And a picture for Andy, did you keep what looks like over wheel fenders (motorcycle type) ?
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andycar.jpg
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Last edited by Caswell on Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AndyClary
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by AndyClary » Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:50 pm

That picture was when I first brought it home. Restoring the car, still haven’t cleaned the shop.

Andy


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:11 pm

My seats came today outstanding service from Speedway Motors as I ordered them yesterday first thing, they shipped for free and UPS dropped them off at noon, upholstery will be a pain but that will be a month down the road.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by walber » Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:30 pm

Can you tell me the make of this speedster?
Attachments
Speedster.jpg


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:03 am

TRDxB2 wrote:
Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:26 pm
Rear axle truss accessory
truss 1.jpg
truss 4.jpg
I'm not sure a later axle would benefit from this truss, any thoughts

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AndyClary
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by AndyClary » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:22 am

I’ve seen enough loose axle tubes and cracked centers on 13/14 riveted housings to think that a truss would be a good addition to the early axles. Probably not needed on later housings, but look kinda cool.

Andy


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:50 am

I found the axle trusses new but for me the $200 to my door price is a little high with so many other items to buy.


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:22 pm

Another period accessory used on speedsters (patent back to 1915)
Attachments
brakelevergrout (2).jpg

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:55 pm

DIY placement of the brake lever.
hand brake mod 2.jpg
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hand brack mod.jpg
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Another
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hand brake mod3.jpg
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Dropacent » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:11 pm

I don’t think I’ve seen this rear setup mentioned. I’m a fan of K.I.S.S………. Most “wheels” have been invented already.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Dropacent » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:17 pm

Dean, it is darn near impossible to reach the stock brake handle on a speedster. You showed one style, here is another. Ed Fuller currently reproduces a similar style, great for late vintage bugs.
89250FF9-CB33-4020-AE54-C4B8214BA5D1.jpeg


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:28 pm

Hi Tim, The one I got from Bill in the people Republic of California, based on the Grout one.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by DHort » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:20 pm

Dean, those seats look interesting. What color will you be making them? Do you still have access to the space under the seats?

P s. I have no problem reaching the brake on my speedster. I also use the running board as a foot rest on long journeys.


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:53 pm

Hi David,
As of today I'm thinking light grey for the body (as little as it is), gas tank, tool box, steering column, hood, hood former, radiator and seat backs with black pleated canvas upholstery, black wheels, chassis and step.
Yes, under the seat is still accessible as the seat base will hinge up from passenger side with hidden latch to keep it locked down. The space under the seat is 8 3/4" High at front 6 3/4" High at rear with a width of 29" and depth of 12", tool box has a ton of space even with a full size battery in it.
Last edited by Caswell on Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by henryford2 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:34 pm

Not a speedster, but still Model T powered. Enjoy
IMG_2006 copy.JPG

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:40 pm

From Dave Carnahan's build! Enjoy!

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Dropacent » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:25 pm

Dave, lower the seat, lower the steering column, tip the seat back and maybe add a cowl to the mix,and I’d bet you wouldn’t reach the stock brake handle.

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Jan 15, 2022 6:43 pm

More Options, flip up adjustable seat with tool tray underneath, getting the steering column down!

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by AndyClary » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:36 pm

I don’t have the Mercury frame brackets. I use a simple kick up in back.

Andy
E9E547A5-9B4C-4A82-9D22-818B7B4C7669.jpeg


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:16 pm

I just made new hood shelves that go from outer edge of firewall and taper to the radiator as I'm thinking of adding 6" aluminum skirts to the body base, will make the same way as most do. I may make my own aluminum one piece hood also. I have not seen a none lowered brass style car with skirts. Working (bulb socket) on my accessory parking light, clear lens faces forward, red lens faces back.

Andy , the rear frame lowering brackets on your car look like steel custom, can't really see them well.
Attachments
parkinglight.jpg
parkinglight2.jpg


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Kevin Pharis » Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:25 pm

Here are a couple bad pics of the strap iron rear lowering brackets on my speedster. These are similar to Andy’s Mercury chassis. 1/4” thick strap iron drops the crossmember 4”. Andy’s car has a large gusset on top of the frame to reinforce, my gas tank mount serves the same purpose.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:03 am

Thanks for posting Kevin, I've seen diagrams of that type, are you using the well made fuel tank support as a gusset also ?
I just sold the aluminum set (pictured) I have so I don't get tempted to lower my car.
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Zbracket2.jpg
Zbracket2.jpg (102.4 KiB) Viewed 7465 times

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by AndyClary » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:21 pm

Here’s another gratuitous photo to bump the thread. My wife had this made for Christmas.

Andy
F6EAD0DD-D8B3-4DD5-9553-381338B41EE6.jpeg


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:59 pm

This is what I was going to use as a step, no idea what it's from.
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IMG_0653 (2).JPG
IMG_0652 (2).JPG


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Dropacent » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:09 pm

A poor photo of an original Mercury rear drop channel.
AB5EB0C0-6645-41F9-BC93-0DBB7B717881.jpeg


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:57 pm

Most of the aluminum edge trim etch primed and fitted, all wood cut edges wetted with epoxy. Hood shelves I'm going to cover with aluminum and incorporate a tapered skirt then run a 6" or 7" skirt the length of body, I'm thinking of making an aluminum hood that runs from the radiator to an 1/8" in from firewall (dash) edge .
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Model T Tom » Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:44 am

Here's one I built 20 some years sgo
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:50 pm

I looked at this picture a few times before something leapt out at me
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early speedster.jpg


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:57 pm

An interesting dealer picture 1915, speedsters in the doorway.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:57 pm

If nobody has build pictures. I'll post my progress today, aluminum trim around firewall (dash), made fuel tank risers and a lid for the tool box. Also started lay out for hood and side skirts.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:07 pm

Pictures of my string layout for hood lines and skirts, side comes up each end from 6" to zero (first and last 23")
Attachments
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:19 pm

Can reach the steering wheel easily? Looks far away from the seats.


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:39 pm

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:19 pm
Can reach the steering wheel easily? Looks far away from the seats.
Hi Jerry,
From the center of seat pad to center nut of steering wheel is 15 to 16", from seat cushion to bottom of steering wheel is 10",
from seat front edge to pedals is 22". One of the things that bothered me with a stock car is the steering wheel always felt like is was going to touch my belt and rest on my thighs, this set up just moves the wheel a little north.


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Shane Lach » Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:29 pm

Been on hiatus for a while now. Built a Gow Job and a new shop behind my house in the meantime. Hopeful I get my engine back soon so I can get back to work on this car.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:15 pm

Thumbs Up, I see the cleco's are you going to rivet? If I can every lay my hands on a set of patterns I'm going to build aluminum skinned like your car but side by side, I spent years bucking rivets on aircraft .

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:27 pm

Looking Good Dean and Shane! I see the little one is getting bigger!

All the Best,

Hank


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Shane Lach » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:54 pm

Thanks guys. Yes, I will be riveting the front and rear sections together. Harper is growing up so fast Hank. She’s taken a liking to all my “race cars” recently which is pretty sweet! She managed to climb in the car all by her self in that photo.

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:19 pm

Well young man..., She will be wanting the keys and gas money in no time!!!!!


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:15 pm

Did a little today, cleaned and painted my inspection cover, tested paint on the plywood all looks O.K. to me, I pin striped for contrast pictured inside and outside in sunlight, this is the grey I was going with but have looked at dark green also. Gasket makes a great template for aluminum trim around hole for fuel bowl/shutoff, decided not to put tank on risers but use factory mounts to deck , it's 4" above stock height, my mind was going around about 60 plus pounds lifted , waiting on pyramid vinyl for floor and rear deck. Next post is steel trim around brake and pedals painted grey, floor will be black.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:20 pm

Fit trim around pedals and brake lever.
My engine is not built for speed but is fast for me, it has a cam lobe driver oil pump (old) along with 4 brass tubes with thin tips inside crank case that are pointed at strategic oil need spots, has troughs brazed to the horse shoe shaped brackets for cover bolts that run under the path of the con rods, rod caps are X cut with 45 deg dippers, 20 over aluminum pistons, head was skimmed, valves replaced and adjustable tappets, cam is heavier (thicker) than stock, oil screen under transmission cover, large funnel on internal oil tube, 4th main has ball bearings, crank inspection cover is accessory aluminum with fins, with oil pump and cover equals an extra 1 1/2 quarts of oil needed.

I'm surprised how many views a speedster thread has in just under one month (almost 5,100).
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by DHort » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:19 pm

Love watching your progress. You might want to test fit your fuel tank, pumpkin, and fuel line to see if it all lines up before you connect it. That was a mistake I made. I had to make the hole in the floor bigger due to the curve of the fuel line so it would not kink.


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:02 am

DHort wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:19 pm
Love watching your progress. You might want to test fit your fuel tank, pumpkin, and fuel line to see if it all lines up before you connect it. That was a mistake I made. I had to make the hole in the floor bigger due to the curve of the fuel line so it would not kink.
Dave,
Thanks, in the pictures above I had already expanded the hole size for the very reason you noted, I had also offset the hole to give more clearance for fuel line connection and shutoff lever (pumpkin is not centered in hole), key is knowing where that is going to be before cutting the hole and I still (first cut ) did not cut large enough .


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:16 pm

Decided to go with earlier coil box with switch/key so spent a little time today refurbing one that I just got (new wood, wires, insulators and paint), this will clean up firewall, I'm also going to do without carb adjusting rod through firewall as I don't see the point (mixture is set, leave alone), starting to not like the look of factory 26 wheels I put on with this style speedster, will probably get rid of them soon. Did the spindle bushing on drivers side (both sides now done) Pictures to follow.
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Speedsterguy2 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:58 am

Take a look at the NW Vintage Speedsters website. At the top of the home page is a series of all the individual pages on the site. The "Lawrence O. Hughes Auto Racing Photo Collection" is the page you want. This collection of photos is from the midwest county fair racing circuit around Nebraska and Kansas, with the newest photos being from 1928. By enlarging and looking carefully at the photos you can see a variety of lowering methods that were actually in use at the time. Of course there are also some interesting photos of engine bays, wheels, and (even!) auxiliary transmissions actually in use on the dirt tracks.


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Re: 'Speedster - photos, lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:32 pm

After setting the steering, toe-in . I believe I need to change to 26/27 spindles to reduce some of the camber that wire wheels don't need, my understanding is the earlier spindles have more camber and was done because of hub/spoke alignment and later it was reduced, I know the 26/27 spindle/axle is 1 inch higher and lowers chassis 1 inch. I have a very noticeable camber (I'll measure later and post), axle is not bowed, I just replaced king pins and bushings (reamed 3 thou over pin size). This is conditional on me keeping wire or changing to solid wheels.

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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:54 pm

Speedsterguy2 wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:58 am
Take a look at the NW Vintage Speedsters website. At the top of the home page is a series of all the individual pages on the site. The "Lawrence O. Hughes Auto Racing Photo Collection" is the page you want. This collection of photos is from the midwest county fair racing circuit around Nebraska and Kansas, with the newest photos being from 1928. By enlarging and looking carefully at the photos you can see a variety of lowering methods that were actually in use at the time. Of course there are also some interesting photos of engine bays, wheels, and (even!) auxiliary transmissions actually in use on the dirt tracks.
I posted many example drops on the first page of this discussion and links to NW Speedster. Here is the one you referenced and as a PDF can be downloaded to a PC for future reference
https://www.nwvs.org/Technical/TimKnappOnLowering.pdf
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Re: 'Speedster - photos, lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Dropacent » Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:30 pm

Speedsters will always be chick magnets
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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:06 pm

Speedsterguy2 wrote:
Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:58 am
Take a look at the NW Vintage Speedsters website. At the top of the home page is a series of all the individual pages on the site. The "Lawrence O. Hughes Auto Racing Photo Collection" is the page you want. This collection of photos is from the midwest county fair racing circuit around Nebraska and Kansas, with the newest photos being from 1928. By enlarging and looking carefully at the photos you can see a variety of lowering methods that were actually in use at the time. Of course there are also some interesting photos of engine bays, wheels, and (even!) auxiliary transmissions actually in use on the dirt tracks.
Thanks, the thread was not intended to be a "how to lower your speedster" lots of info on that subject around, I started by asking what peoples thoughts were about lowering "lower or not" and that was related to early style or late style cars, pictures = pictures of peoples cars on the forum and build progress pictures, accessories= related to period accessories used on speedsters NOT RELATED TO LOWERING, even better if someone has said accessory. This was the intent
Last edited by Caswell on Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Dropacent » Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:27 pm

Another view of the Mercury rear frame lowering. Photo courtesy of Jarvis Erickson
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Susanne » Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:18 pm

I like the Mercury lowering bracket - a lot - you don't lose the strength or integrity of the original frame with the cut and weld method (which always seemed like it would introduce a weak point in the frame), and if you not only structurally bolt the addition to it (like putting a brace in a bridge) but also weld it in place it would, I'm guessing (as long as welding the brace in didn't create a weakness in the frame rails where the weld is) be possibly even sronger than original...

So the quesiton is is is that one an original, anyone repopping the Mercury tail lowerer (perhaps from other frame parts), or, well, yeah. Gets the creative juices flowing!

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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:21 pm

A cars "stance" (how it sits on the ground) has as much to do with a visual appearance as a practical one. I think to lower or not to lower has to do with the "look" one is after. If the low ones were high t hey wouldn't look right. And opposite for the high ones
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Dropacent » Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:50 pm

26 spindles, reverse eye front spring, merc axle, 20” tires gives
7C2FC664-A9E6-4370-BD94-E8D54A0F5923.jpeg
me 6” below the wishbone nut and about 7” at the pan drain plug.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:32 am

This guy looks like he is having a good day (not really a speedster but).
Also as we keep ending up on the subject of lowering, has anyone used the rear crossmember from Lang's (2" drop), if I did get a wild hair to lower this could be used with full length rear deck that I have made.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:05 pm

Back to doing some small things (farm work priority this past week), cleaned up a coil box I got from Philip Lawrence a week or so ago, cleaned switch, rewire, new wood and may put an early brass switch cover on it, I did cut a hole and install carb adjusting rod , may remove and enlarge hole and put a push pull light switch in it's place, started making patterns for side skirts. Will cut/remove hood sides about 3" under hinge tomorrow and finish skirt patterns, found an 18" steering wheel that I need to rework.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Dropacent » Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:42 pm

If interested in speedsters and you don’t possess both these books, be ashamed ! Not only do they show about every way under the sun to make a “bug” but also old period ads for almost any and every go-fast part made back in the day. Great to identify old junque that you may come across. Knowledge is power! A lot of reprints from period articles in FordOwner and other rags. I’m on my second pair and plenty pictures make them my kind of reading material. Little known, but the two pages I’m showing are the actual assembly instructions for the Mercury speedster body kit. Great info to learn what size fasteners are used originally. Priceless info! Get them at Lang’s, Snyder’s or Chaffin’s, you will never regret it.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:40 pm

I have both, I have an unopened 1956 first print of the yellow one.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:19 pm

Got the side skirt patterns done, now to get some sheet aluminum, check with a couple of people about use of tools to cut and bend them, may look at bead about an inch in from edge to stiffen. Did not get around to cutting hood but will do tomorrow (original 14 aluminum hood).
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Mark Anderson » Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:13 am

I really like the Mercury frame lowering bracket. Does anyone have detailed drawings for a pattern?


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:34 pm

Caswell wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:50 pm
I looked at this picture a few times before something leapt out at me

The wheel?

A very famous photo of Frank Kulick driving one of Ford's specials about 1911 or 1912. The thing about Ford's specials is that there were at least five of them, one went to France and was raced there by Henri Depasse. The five (possibly as many as seven?) of them were all constructed so that certain parts of the cars could be changed in minutes to suit different races. The seats, single or dual, the gasoline tank size, and the wheels, either wood or wire spoke , could any or all be swapped in or out quickly.
Another detail was whether the car would use a speedometer or not. An interesting detail, as far as I know not yet confirmed by historic notes, is that numerous era photographs show the speedometer gear on only the front wooden spoke wheel. It has been mentioned in past discussions about these cars, and having looked at numerous era photos, the wire front wheels were not generally equipped with the speedometer drive gear. Was this by design? Or? I don't know. However, several era photos do show the specials with three wire wheels, and the right front a wooden spoke wheel driving the speedometer.
Pure speculation. Perhaps, for a few hours, maybe test runs before the actual race? Possibly they ran the speedometer just so Frank or another driver could see how fast they were going? I do seem to recall seeing at least one photo of what appeared to be an actual race with the Ford special with one odd wheel?

So much interesting stuff!


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by DHort » Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:40 pm

Dean,

I think a definition of a Model T speedster would be a car without the original body, seat lowered, and tank behind.

Some include, 'No top. No fenders. No problem.'

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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:04 pm

DHort wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:40 pm
Dean,

I think a definition of a Model T speedster would be a car without the original body, seat lowered, and tank behind.

Some include, 'No top. No fenders. No problem.'
So these you don't consider these speedsters?
Have the original body
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Gas Tank not behind
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High Seat????]
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by AndyClary » Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:54 pm

It’s hard to place a strict definition of a speedster. They are such a personalized vehicle. That said, stock body cars are not speedsters. Sorry. They are modifieds or “gow jobs” but not speedsters.

Andy


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:56 am

AndyClary wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:54 pm
It’s hard to place a strict definition of a speedster. They are such a personalized vehicle. That said, stock body cars are not speedsters. Sorry. They are modifieds or “gow jobs” but not speedsters.

Andy

In the model T speedster world, I am totally with Andy C on this! However, to add confusion to the subject? In the 1920s and into the 1930s, several automakers marketed various more sleek than the standard body automobiles as their "Speedster" model. Marmon, Hudson, Franklin, and Auburn, along with numerous others had lower sided four passenger touring-type cars and even lower sided sleeker sedans that were called "Speedster" by the factory sales literature!
I went on a nickel age club tour once that had two Marmon speedsters and a Hudson speedster on the tour! All three of them were factory bodied four passenger cars with folding tops. A good friend had the Hudson, and I followed him in my Studebaker for almost a hundred miles one day. Sort of a different kind of Speedster Run.

Ain't linguistics fun?


By the way, the "Model T Ford in Speed and Sport" book, along with the other book which was actually printed under two different titles at various times ("Fast Ford Handbook" and "Speed Secrets")? I suddenly realized I have had my copies for over fifty years now!


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Re: 'Speedster - photos and thoughts on lowering or not

Post by Caswell » Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:15 am

Wayne Sheldon wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:34 pm
Caswell wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:50 pm
I looked at this picture a few times before something leapt out at me

The wheel?

A very famous photo of Frank Kulick driving one of Ford's specials about 1911 or 1912. The thing about Ford's specials is that there were at least five of them, one went to France and was raced there by Henri Depasse. The five (possibly as many as seven?) of them were all constructed so that certain parts of the cars could be changed in minutes to suit different races. The seats, single or dual, the gasoline tank size, and the wheels, either wood or wire spoke , could any or all be swapped in or out quickly.
Another detail was whether the car would use a speedometer or not. An interesting detail, as far as I know not yet confirmed by historic notes, is that numerous era photographs show the speedometer gear on only the front wooden spoke wheel. It has been mentioned in past discussions about these cars, and having looked at numerous era photos, the wire front wheels were not generally equipped with the speedometer drive gear. Was this by design? Or? I don't know. However, several era photos do show the specials with three wire wheels, and the right front a wooden spoke wheel driving the speedometer.
Pure speculation. Perhaps, for a few hours, maybe test runs before the actual race? Possibly they ran the speedometer just so Frank or another driver could see how fast they were going? I do seem to recall seeing at least one photo of what appeared to be an actual race with the Ford special with one odd wheel?

So much interesting stuff!
Yes, the front right wheel and it must be an optical illusion but it also looks smaller.

Regarding the following posts, I would call most of the original body cars (modified) roadsters, same goes for the brass cars with fenders and running boards (Rootlieb style) they even look mostly like early Ford cars sold as roadsters.

Even today the definition is unclear between sports car and roadster, Mazda had a prototype of the Miata made with no roof and stripped down slatted as Roadster, Porsche makes a boned down low windshield no door glass, no AC, no radio, no carpet, no roof Roadster.
The streamlined after market bodies of the teens and twenties would have been marketed as speedster because what else would they have called them, they were the speed cars of the day, they became sports cars MGTC (picture below) and so many others.

Anyway, I'm working on my ? (fill in the blank) today and making the side skirts as a friend dropped off an extremely heavy brake to get the job done, if interest is still there I'll post pictures later, hope the thread is not going to turn into a pi*#ing match as so many do because of differing opinions, different opinions, thoughts and discussion are the definition of a forum (this place) don't get mad, give a response with a why.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Dropacent » Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:31 am

Our grandfathers called them bugs. I like to think “ no rules” I’m very encouraged with the recent demand for lowering parts, and that tells me some young blood in the hobby, and new projects. We can let the stuffy types argue about correctness ,year of manufacture , provenance , etc, and just play with our bugs, speedsters, go-jobs, bangers, whatever you want to call them JMHO


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:30 pm

I asked before with no reply, as lowering keeps coming up, has anyone used the high arch rear frame crossmember available from Lang's (if in stock)? may be like 2854-DF. In addition how hard are the factory dropped front axles (2691-DF) to get ?
The 26-27 spindles only lower by 1/2" best I can measure.
Has anyone put their car on a scale ?
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:10 pm

"Yes, the front right wheel and it must be an optical illusion but it also looks smaller."

Not an optical illusion. Rob Heyen that has resurrected one of the specials around the remaining original 1911/1912 special engine did a tremendous amount of research on the specials and their construction. His car has both the wooden spoke and wire wheels for it just as the cars originally did. The wire wheels had to be made special to exacting detail to match the original wire wheels. His research showed that the wire wheels were about an inch larger diameter than the wooden wheels were.


" has anyone used the high arch rear frame crossmember available from Lang's (if in stock)? "
For whatever it is worth? One of the speedsters I put together some years back using some original speedster pieces, had a rear crossmember that had been home-made using large angle iron shaped around the arch of the rear spring holding it higher similar to the ones I have seen pictures of as sold by Langs. Mine wasn't as nice as theirs, but it was old, and worked nicely.
I don't know if my use helps your question or not?

Continuing the "What is in a name?" "Speedster" is only one of several names these cars were called back in their day. "Bug" was a very popular term. Interestingly enough, "doodle bug" was also a very popular term for speedster type model Ts. However, most people today associate "doodle bug" with cars cut down into tractors or other farm implements. "Torpedo" was another very popular term for our speedsters, especially but NOT exclusively for what we tend to call "boat-tail" cars.
Years ago, I made a short list of names I had found them called in era writings and advertising. But I have long since misplaced that list. I think I had about eight to ten names for them.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:57 am

Wayne,
How did this car turn out when stance was corrected ?
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:21 pm

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Fun little car! Very basic speedster, ran great. I didn't keep it long enough. Sold it too cheap. It got some changes to it and was for sale about a year later for almost three times what I sold it for. I have no idea what became of it after that. And, as is somewhat usual for me, I prefer to not know.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:29 pm

That looks like the high arch rear crossmember (last picture) I was asking about yesterday.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:35 pm

This afternoons work, make the aluminum skirts and hood shelves, not attached but held on with tape until I get some fasteners.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:40 pm

Couple more pictures plus the 18" steering wheel, no idea what make.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:44 pm

When I took that thrown-together pile on the Endurance Run, I already had the cowl and wheels along with other things for it. We threw the thing together and got it running the day before the Run, went totally unprepared and had a blast trying to get through. Unfortunately, fuel line, tank, and a few other things slowed us down way too much, and a tire failure put us out of the running. But we had fun!

We had managed to slip unnoticed to behind the trouble truck. So when the tire failure ended our drive, in a NO cell service area?
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That is me using the model T hood as a semi-parabolic dish to boost the cell phone and reach a distant tower on the other side of the valley! I did communications system contracting and engineering for over thirty years. But model Ts are a lot more fun to play with!

And that is the car that got the odd high arch cross member I had picked up some years ago.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:02 pm

Today my floor/deck covering came, I'm happy, correct size pyramids, automotive cert (oil resistant and fire resistant.) at a price I thought was great $5 linear foot 3 foot wide I purchased 8 foot just in case ($40), then I found my NOS tail light. I went with black as I don't want to look at a white floor in the sun, the white aluminum trim is in primer and will be grey like the pedal trim.
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Caswell
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:37 pm

I'm now leaning toward lowering a little, High arch rear crossmember and Laurel type brackets up front.

Also if anyone is interested the floor/deck covering is from link below

https://www.allstairtreads.com/pyrumavi ... ZiEALw_wcB


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:54 am

Okay, a question about that pyramid mat. How "square" are the pyramids? I bought some pyramid mat several years ago for a restoration I was working on. However, the pyramid lines were not ninety degrees square. For a lot of uses, that is alright. But one of the projects I wanted it for really showed! Either one direction or the other wasn't square to the body! Even if the body isn't quite square unto itself? Then one side or the other showed a much more extreme or even backwards slant relative to the body. No matter what one does, it comes out looking wonky! Just curious. I may like to buy some more.
Thank you!


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:20 am

The product I purchased has the rows running diagonal, would not work for a judged restoration but for a driven car/speedster/truck I think it's fine, with the lines not running longitudinal and latitudinal not being 100% square can be hidden or not noticed, I did work hard to line my cover and cut the end of the roll square before layout. I wanted something that had close to correct size pyramids. I had asked on another thread about an outlet for the floor covering and a few people kindly posted links and comments. Link below, note Rich Eagle's post with a copy of catalog page and look at the top of page covering, same product but $5 as apposed to $26 per foot.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26422&p=203209#p203209


As a side note, I'm trying to build the car with a mind set that if it was possible to send it and myself back to 1926/27 no part would look out of place.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:16 pm

Not much done today, installed light switch, finished floor mat, made aluminum trim for rear deck fuel bowl cut out and cut the hood sides down.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:15 pm

Thank you Dean for the reply!

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AndyClary
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by AndyClary » Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:53 pm

Good work Dean. I need to get back on my speedster.


Andy


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:14 pm

AndyClary wrote:
Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:53 pm
Good work Dean. I need to get back on my speedster.


Andy
Yes you do ;) .

Dean


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:37 pm

A little today, made bracket for tail light, rear trim and installed side skirts (no tape) will make braces that attach bottom edge of side skirts to chassis as soon as I get some more aluminum bar stock, skirts are reasonable solid but three or four angle braces per side will make it solid as a rock.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:26 pm

color scheme starting to show (grey and black). Decided to lower the stance a 3 inches, will start on that when my parts get here.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:22 pm

Any speedster owners know the weight of their cars ?


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by DHort » Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:17 pm

1200 pounds, I think.
1360 if I am in it.

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Craig Leach
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Craig Leach » Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:29 pm

Best as I remember Mine is about 1150, with me in it 1320 if the wife is with me it's 1420 Thats my story & I'm sticken with it.
Craig.


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Dropacent » Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:29 pm

Really enjoying the progress and discussion. I didn’t see it mentioned, but this axle was a Ford product. Often referred to as the “ Manchester axle” and another neat lowering idea if you can find one. The shipping from overseas may be stout.
398EAB3C-D98E-40B6-BA74-E40875F64E49.jpeg


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:41 pm

Yep, the page grab you posted is from this thread Mon Feb 7th (post 421 for me).

I did some work on the seat base and painted seat backs today, I will post pictures later. I'm on the fence with regard to seat cushion color, I know it's not a speed item but I like thing to look good, I'm going with canvas for the fabric but undecided as to slate grey or black . Hope my front lowering brackets show soon (and hope well made) so I can jump on that project as the side skirts may need to be slotted and reinforced around relief cuts for rear spring, rear radius rods and brake rods when I lower the back end a few inches (3").


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:10 pm

I put some grey paint on seat backs, blacked out wood base and used some T trim around edge, repurposed the hood handles with one I riveted on the passenger seat for lifting that side to gain access to under seat storage and as a grab handle, the other handle goes on top of tool box .

Looks like our post numbers are not changing .
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Dallas Landers » Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:15 pm

Lookin good!


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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:18 pm

Dallas Landers wrote:
Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:15 pm
Lookin good!
Thanks Dallas.
Paint next week if weather warms up.
Last edited by Caswell on Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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babychadwick
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by babychadwick » Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:03 am

Lowering can be done many ways. On mine the eye was inverted and a flatter spring used (1 inch), Chevy spindles(1 inch), and cross member flattened (4 inches). Inches are approx and it places the drain plug around the wheel rim, you don't want to tear the bottom of your pan off if you get a flat tire.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:25 pm

Still not done but getting close, I painted it last week. Still to do are upholstery, finish hood strap, finish electric, paint wheels.
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Caswell » Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:29 pm

More pictures, water slide decals are a pain and more so when they are 80 years old, finished the decals today with the number 5's.
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Guardian1fox2
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Re: 'Speedster - lower or not, period accessories.

Post by Guardian1fox2 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:50 pm

So jealous of y’all’s setups! I wish I could weld and stuff lol. Some of these pictures are exactly what I’d love my new T to be. Once I get it running good of course lol. I already got some 26-7 spindles in, plan to reverse eye the front, and maybe get a drop axle? Idk yet I’d like to leave the hasslers on there for the looks. Perhaps I should just do spring and spindle and reverse eye the rear and call it good? I liked the aluminum Z brackets I saw on eBay, but cutting the frame seems a little daunting with my lack of experience. So much to learn…one thing at a time.

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