Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

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varmint
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Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:15 pm

Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (not for purists but hopefully helpful)
I tried to purchase a wood kit but at "about 4-5 months for delivery" I decided to make our own.
A-rough cut 01.jpg
This old piece of wood is all that is left to go by and has a thickness of 1-3/8".
The lumber yard had this single poplar (not ash) board that happened to be 1-3/8" x 5-5/8" x 13' 1/2" long.
The thickness is perfect.
They should be 2-3/4" wide, two of which side by side is 5-1/2", plus 1/8" saw cut is 5-5/8"...ummmm...
How much can I get out of this hardwood?
It's time for the rough cuts!

A-rough cut 02.jpg
A-rough cut 02.jpg (75.16 KiB) Viewed 2479 times
The wood was laid on top of the left side and I traced the outside edge underneath with a marker (not a pencil).
It is important that long edge of the board butts to the rear, not the front.
I then flipped the board around and continued marking the right side underneath.
Masking tape marks front and rear on the body there the board lay for marking.

A-rough cut 03.jpg
A-rough cut 03.jpg (37.3 KiB) Viewed 2479 times
Only one cut is made, but not inbetween the left and right sides.

A-rough cut 04.jpg
This cut off excess piece is long enough for the rear section.

A-rough cut 05.jpg
Going back to the long piece that is marked up...just cutting along the line.
Last edited by varmint on Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:18 pm

A-rough cut 06.jpg
The front edge markings of the side pieces are on the same side...

A-rough cut 07.jpg
...and the notch must be cut out but I cannot cut all the way across the short way.
It's time to measure 2-3/4" from the edge I just removed.

A-rough cut 08.jpg
And then rip the board along that new line.
Now I can separate the left and right sides...their last inch.
This other scrap which is left over will be the piece from which the front board is cut.
At 2-1/2" for the front (not 2-3/4" for the other three sides), it is perfect.

A-rough cut 09.jpg
The rear piece is cut and is then marked from the cut edge 2-3/4".
A speed square with its notches for a writing instrument seems to go around the bends rather nicely.

A-rough cut 10.jpg
Here are the four pieces as cut from one board...
Last edited by varmint on Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 (home built)

Post by varmint » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:21 pm

A-rough cut 11.jpg
And the scrap. I dunno, maybe body blocks.

A-rough cut 12.jpg
I laid the four boards on top, which all overlap at the corners.
The square (carriage) and round wood screw holes are marked, four on the rear, plus two corners.

A-rough cut 13.jpg
The front likewise has four, plus two corners.
The front board will most likely overlap as in this photo, not as shown in the one below.

A-rough cut 14.jpg
And the left and right sides have four each for a total of twenty screws/bolts.

A-rough cut 15.jpg
I suppose another way to look at it is 6 on all 4 sides for 24, minus 4 double counted = 20.
Last edited by varmint on Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (not for purists but hopefully helpful)

Post by varmint » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:24 pm

A-rough cut 16.jpg
I am comparing our late 1926 to Don Booth's early 1926 project to show the hole differences.
Note our late short floor pan compared to his long floor pan circled in yellow.
He has marked the steel square holes and round wood holes for carriage bolts.
I have marked all the holes.
The hardware that I use will be addressed in the future.
A-DB Early 1926.jpg

A-rough cut 17.jpg
The two rear corner bolt holes are too close to the edge of the rear board.
So, I will cut the rear board back and let the left and right sides take the full length of the bolt at the rear corners.

A-rough cut 18.jpg
A-rough cut 18.jpg (33.98 KiB) Viewed 2477 times
Finally, if you didn't catch it in the other photos...measure twice and cut once.
Also make sure your writing stick is in the correct notch.
Vern (Vieux Carre)

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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:33 am

Top Wood late 1926 Coupe
B-smooth cut 01.jpg
A belt sander made quick work of the interior and exterior saw blade marks.
I haven't used a router in fourty years and feel like a beginner again.

B-smooth cut 02.jpg
Round over and rabbet cuts.

B-smooth cut 03.jpg
I have different pictures of the headliner shelf existing or not existing on the front and rear ends.
While I have the router set up, I might as well do it all.
My rabbet bit only cuts to a depth of 9/16" not 5/8". So be it.

B-smooth cut 04.jpg
B-smooth cut 04.jpg (56.8 KiB) Viewed 2355 times
B-smooth cut 05.jpg
B-smooth cut 05.jpg (42.52 KiB) Viewed 2355 times
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:35 am

B-smooth cut 06.jpg
There are rivets, screw holes, and plates that jut above the surface.
The rim appears to be higher than 3/16" tall.
This begs the question: does the wood sit within the rim or is the wood notched and sit above it, flush with the outside of the steel rim?
I don't have instructions, so I choose flush.

B-smooth cut 07.jpg
Different types of relief cuts need to be made for the bottom wood surface to sit flush.

B-smooth cut 08.jpg
The front edges of the left and right sides sit on a plateau 3/16" high which also matches the height of the front piece.

B-smooth cut 09.jpg
B-smooth cut 10.jpg
So, the entire front piece needs to be shaved 3/16" on the bottom.
Vern (Vieux Carre)

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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:37 am

B-smooth cut 11.jpg
Cut and chisel. Drilled 5/16" holes for the 1/4" bolt shanks.

B-smooth cut 12.jpg
Lapping the sides and ends.

B-smooth cut 13.jpg
Another way of making overlapping corners.

B-smooth cut 14.jpg
Wood glue and masking tape bandages for a pair of splits.
Vern (Vieux Carre)


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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by jab35 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:55 am

Nice woodworking, thanks for sharing. When I removed the rotted wood bits from the top rails of my '26 coupe I found what appeared to be remains of some kind of bedding material in the low spots between the body and wood, I suspect it was common window glazing putty and I wonder if anyone else can shed light on this? Bedding putty, low density body filler, etc would seem like a good way to stabilize the wood base and simplify some wood sculpting. (not criticizing the sculpting, mind you) jb

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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by Hap_Tucker » Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:47 am

Vernon,

Thank you so much for posting your "do-it-yourself wood kit" illustrations. I'm sure they will be helpful to others in the future. And it kept your project moving forward. That is also one of the advantages of the 1926-27 "steel bodied" cars -- you can use the body as the guide for lining up the wood. (Not the same for the 1926-27 Fordor -- it continued the wood frame with metal panels nailed to the wood frame) On the earlier bodies with the wood skeleton, you can and should also use the metal to help line up the wood -- but the final wood frame is used to determine how the panels will look when nailed to the frame. A lot more "trial and error" re-fitting for those before the wood frame is screwed together permanently.

Again, thank you for sharing your experience.

Respectfully submitted,

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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:22 am

Top Wood late 1926 Coupe
C-ribs 01.jpg
Ribs - I was given this fifty year old oak church pew because it was falling apart.
So, I chiseled one board off then picked this up and let it slam on the floor, breaking cleanly into individual boards.
Wish I had it on video.


C-ribs 02.jpg
Drilling 1/4" holes for the bolts.
Trimming the overlapping corners.
Using screw drivers for alignment.


C-ribs 03.jpg
After getting the correct depth for the 3/4" hole, the bit was masked off to cut the remaining holes for nuts.


C-ribs 04.jpg
Rear, then sides over top, then the front piece, all bolted down.
Since the late 1926 has more hardware, I can't assume the ribs will go in the same place.


C-ribs 05.jpg
A screwdriver lines up the original and new top wood and the cross members location are marked.
It seems the original wood for a late 1926 was only 2-1/4" wide, not 2-3/4" !
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:24 am

C-ribs 06.jpg
Front to rear is 53-1/2". Rear edge to 4th cross member is 10-7/8" on center.
The 3rd and 4th cross members are 10-7/8" on center.
For the front two cross members, there is no original wood to take measurements from.


C-ribs 07.jpg
The front steel body is crowned up in the center about 1/2"...
and the rear of the steel body is crowned up about 3/8".


C-ribs 08.jpg
The oak that I have is 3/4" wide not 1", will have to compensate somehow.
Drilled down to 3/16" above the rabbet cut.
Saber sawed the two sides and chiseled out the rest.


C-ribs 09.jpg
Used a 3/8" round over on both sides to fit perfectly into the 3/4" slot.


C-ribs 10.jpg
Since the cross members are in slightly different locations, their span measurements will also differ.
Cut the ribs to length and two more round overs on the other side.
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:26 am

C-ribs 11.jpg
Lots of math to get the top curves cut off.


C-ribs 12.jpg
Quick work with a belt sander and then sand paper.


C-ribs 13.jpg
Countersunk holes on the rib ends for the wood screws.
The ribs themselves have a 1/4" shaft holes so that screw threads don't pull on them.
I decided not to make the undercuts on the ribs for strength.


C-ribs 14.jpg
More belt sander and sand paper action.


C-ribs 15.jpg
Started drilling one of the holes and stopped in time.
Sawdust and wood glue will fix this (and the corners) later.


James & Hap – thanks
I found some sort of putty all the way around the top of the metal even after being exposed to the elements for years. It was sticky, pliable, and yellowish but not very thick at all. I have read a lot of discussion about using a 3M product or something else as a sealant (not as glue). I have a respect for those who build these kits.
Vern (Vieux Carre)


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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by jab35 » Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:37 am

Nice work, Verne and thanks for sharing the photos.

Here’s a partial summary of prior forum posts on the subject of bedding and sealing the top wood, fwiw, jb

By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 04:45 pm:
When I removed the original top from my '27 Tudor there were no traces of any kind of sealant........just wood against metal.

By David Dewey, N. California on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 05:56 pm:
Decades ago I bedded the belt rail wood on my '30 sport coupe with a grey "dum-dum" product. It was a lot like window glazing putty, but not as sticky, and never hardens--wish I could remember where I found it, or what it's modern usage was, as I think it would be great for sealing the wood/body area.
Don't forget that originally, the headliner goes on before the top!

By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 06:27 pm:
I use pls30 Locktite roof and flashing sealant. Its cheap and remains flexible and can be removed if needed. It also cleans up nice with mineral spirit. It also sticks to anything wood and metal. Very good stuff!

By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 06:33 pm:
You can use the locktite to hold the ribs to the cross-members also. It will allow enough flex to the roof without breaking the joints. If you want to use the best then pick up a tube of 3M 5200 marine adhesive.

By Mark Strange on Friday, April 25, 2014 - 06:42 pm:
David, was the dum-dum product this?
http://3mcollision.com/3m-strip-calk-08578-black.html
It's used to stick the sheet plastic inner liner to the inside of car doors before the inner decorative panels are installed.

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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:56 am

Top Wood late 1926 Coupe

So, the wood part is done but what about the hardware?
D-hardware 01.jpg
The original nut, removed with a straight spanner from above the carriage bolt (broken off).
All stainless steel: screws, washers, nuts, and welds are used as hardware.
This is a 1/4" 3x3 plate of stainless.


D-hardware 02.jpg
Originally, I thought the bottom of the nut was 3/8" round.


D-hardware 03.jpg
D-hardware 03.jpg (34.11 KiB) Viewed 2059 times
Decision time: I chose to make the top wood removable without having to remove the top material first.
All the unsean carriage bolts are being replaced with 1/4" hex or round heads.
The countersunk wood screw holes at the top of the doors stay the same but are replaced with machine screws.
Welding 3 spurs on the washers to bite into the wood and prevent turning when removing the machine screw from the bottom.


D-hardware 04.jpg
Then welding the nut on top of the washer after running a file through the washer.
I made 16 of these and installed them.
The remainder 4 wood screws secure the front center wood (20 total).
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:58 am

D-hardware 05.jpg
The top wood was removed and primed/painted. Ribs are numbered on the front.
The removal process was unsatisfactory in that the washer/nut combination did not perform as hoped.


D-hardware 06.jpg
D-hardware 06.jpg (73.24 KiB) Viewed 2059 times
So, changing directions again and making use of the stainless plate, tapped to 1/4"-20.
The math: 4 rows, 4 columns, 3/4x3/4" each, lots of time, moving slow and cautious.
At this time then screw was still a Philips drive.


D-hardware 07.jpg
At this point, making them round is not a challenge.
No - I do not want the nuts to turn when I unscrew.


D-hardware 08.jpg
Square pegs don't fit in round holes.
I struggled a long time whether to leave them as is or make them correct.
A split slot driver tool would also have to be made.
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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by varmint » Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:01 am

D-hardware 09.jpg
This is getting expensive per nut and is time consuming but you cannot buy these anywhere.
I wouldn't want do this commercially for $10 each.


D-hardware 10.jpg
I opted to leave them square and chisel the round holes.
The ribs are using #14 x 1-1/4" stainless wood screws because that is what retail had on the shelf in quantity 8.
The rib holes are 1-1/2" in from the outside edge.
Ribs sit on more wood since I used the 2-3/4" top wood width instead of my original 2-1/4" piece.


D-hardware 11.jpg
D-hardware 11.jpg (25.55 KiB) Viewed 2059 times
Welding the Phillips screws into straight. I filled them in with stainless weld and then slotted them with a cut off wheel.
These two machine screws hold the front top wood down at the visor corners.


D-hardware 12.jpg
Thank you for following my January 2022 journey.
Vern (Vieux Carre)


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Re: Top Wood late 1926 Coupe (home built)

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:32 am

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