Treating wooden wheels.

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
James_B_NC
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:01 am
First Name: James
Last Name: Bennington
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Roadster
Location: NC
Board Member Since: 2018

Treating wooden wheels.

Post by James_B_NC » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:32 pm

Recently, I sent my wheels off to be repoked by Noah Stutzman. Was wondering about the best way to seal them when I get them back. While I know that the purist way is to paint them since they came from the factory that way, I'd rather stain them a walnut color and use sealer. What's the best way to go about that?
The forum's resident Millennial.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6428
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:37 pm

Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

User avatar

TWrenn
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by TWrenn » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:36 pm

I'm too lazy to hit the links from Scott...but I will say that smearing a thin coat of Kwik-Poly on them followed by light, easy sanding seals them fantastic. Makes for real smooth black painted spokes! Gotta give Joe Bell credit for this! I'm not that smart.

User avatar

Tim Rogers
Posts: 387
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Rogers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe & 1923 Runabout
Location: South of the Adirondacks
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by Tim Rogers » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:20 pm

wheel.jpg
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>


Topic author
James_B_NC
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:01 am
First Name: James
Last Name: Bennington
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Roadster
Location: NC
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by James_B_NC » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:23 am

Tims,thanks but as I stated, I do not wish to paint the wood. Just going to stain and seal it
The forum's resident Millennial.

User avatar

George Mills
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:32 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Mills
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster, 1919 Hack, 1925 Fordor
Location: Cherry Hill NJ/Anona Largo FL
MTFCA Number: 29497
MTFCI Number: 10032
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by George Mills » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:52 am

I had a set of wheels that I had dipped and neutralized a long time ago. They came out not so natural wood color so I then stained them walnut but they came out looking dark hickory after the first coat...and I decided to keep them that color and not add another coat.

I then added two coats of Waterlox tung-oil (which takes forever to dry) which provided one of the toughest finishes I have ever seen. Now almost 40 years later and they are STILL as crisp and sharp as the day they were done

After 40 years, the car was worn out again, and stripped to a chassis and moved to storage...note the wheels, they never changed in that whole 40 years :)
chassis25.jpg

User avatar

TWrenn
Posts: 3386
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by TWrenn » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:55 am

James_b_nc wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:23 am
Tims,thanks but as I stated, I do not wish to paint the wood. Just going to stain and seal it
Oops! Thats what I get for not properly reading things. If ur gonna leave em naked I would just sand them nice and smooth and stain if u wish to get some color, then steel or.bronze wool with fine wool, and minimum 3 coats of urethane varnish, lightly buffing with the wool between coats. They will be gorgeous then.

User avatar

George Mills
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:32 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Mills
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster, 1919 Hack, 1925 Fordor
Location: Cherry Hill NJ/Anona Largo FL
MTFCA Number: 29497
MTFCI Number: 10032
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by George Mills » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:27 am

Life is sometimes mysterious....

I answered the other day with a modern photo...

And then today not even doing anything T I come across a 1979 picture of the car before its first restore....


Just for kicks...
1979 T.jpg

User avatar

Jugster
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:41 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Coiro
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Touring
Location: Commack, NY
Board Member Since: 2009

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by Jugster » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:14 pm

Painting your wooden wheels black is ever so much easier than staining and varnishing. It's also historically accurate. See, no Model T Ford ever left the factory with stained and varnished wooden wheels. That having been said, it's also true that at some point, a few dealers were reputed to have been supplying bare-wood wheels as spare parts, and that provides the barest excuse to stretch credulity and refer to varnished wheels as "period-correct." That's probably 80% baloney, but okay.

The black-painted Flivvers built after 1913, particularly the slab-sided tourings, when viewed from the side, absolutely scream for a little texture. That vast, uninterrupted black expanse along the body's flanks photographs horribly in anything less than screeching, blazing-yellow, summer sunlight, and in person, doesn't really look a whole lot better (Yet, collector-car enthusiasts, particularly those who own high-performance cars and hot-rods, just love black paint—go figure). Even though my black '15 Touring has a smattering of brass, it's just not enough. That's sort of like a nun wearing red lipstick. Such a habit needed to be broken (sorry, couldn't resist), so I decided to go with stained and varnished wheels, and if the purists get apoplexy over it... well, that's just too flippin' bad.

To get the job done properly, you're going to need some equipment and supplies. Among other things, I'm talking about a table-vice and some kind of dowel you can stick in there to hold your wheel in place and allow you to slowly rotate it as you're gliding your foam brush over the wood spokes. Foam brush??? Really? Yes. Forget that stuff about needing some kind of expensive llama-hair brush that you'll spend half your time cleaning. The cheapie, one-inch, disposable foam brushes work just fine for applying varnish as long as you go slow and avoid squeezing bubbles out of the foam. Easy enough. Use a foam brush once and toss it. They're cheap as dirt.

A rear wheel is easy to mount to the vice because you really only need an eight to ten-inch length of wooden dowel to use as a holding fixture. A front wheel requires a little more creativity than a wooden stick unless you're willing to remove the ball-or-roller bearings, snap-rings, etc. from the hub, but it's probably a good idea to clean all that stuff out and de-grease the hub to inspect the races and, afterward, re-pack the hub with new grease, anyway.

The next step is to mask off the already-primed metal rim and hub and the little oval-shaped plates which hold your two wooden felloe halves together. For that, I use green auto-body tape. That stuff can be purchased online or at an auto-body supply shop. The good thing about it is, it peels off with leaving any kind of residue.

It is important that the stain you want to use is compatible with varnish. Chances are astronomically stacked in your favor where that's concerned, but it doesn't hurt to do a test on a piece of scrap wood to make sure. I use "Old Masters" wiping stain. It comes in a nice assortment of colors, so pick whichever one you like:
https://myoldmasters.com/product/wiping-stain/
I chose the "Rich Mahogany," which is actually a good deal lighter and redder than what you see on the website. It comes out looking very nice. Applying it is easy enough; just wipe it on with a soft cotton rag, something like a retired white T-shirt. I went with two such coats. Now, remember; the finer sandpaper you use to prepare the wood surface, the more reluctant it will be to absorb the stain. I used 220-grit, which worked out nicely. Of course, anytime you apply sandpaper to wood, you're going to follow up with a tack-cloth to clean away the sawdust.

You're going to need a good-quality marine spar varnish. Since you only want to do this tedious job once (per wheel!), get the very best. That's Epiphanes high-gloss clear varnish, which can be purchased either online or at a boat shop. A quart of the stuff is fairly expensive, but hey, you only get that for which you pay. Do it right; do it once (As Dad used to say, "Cheap is expensive"). You'll need to thin the varnish out to about a 50;50 ratio with Penetrol, which is easy enough to find in a paint or hardware store.

Buy a box of disposable nitrile gloves. Your hands have natural oils which, after enough handling, can dirty up the wood, and holding a tack cloth in your bare hands will make your fingers unpleasantly sticky. Besides that, the aforementioned finishing chemicals with which you'll be working are kind of nasty. When it comes time to play with that chemistry, you'll need good ventilation and a cheap, Home-Depot respirator.

Okay, so you sanded the wood with 220-grit, tack-clothed it and wiped on two coats of stain. Let that dry a day or two, then VERY lightly sand the wood with 320-grit paper to give it just a little bit of tooth for the varnish to grab. Do this part very tenderly (and maybe have a cigarette afterward).

Of course, lightly wipe the wood off with a tack-cloth before applying the first coat of varnish. Mix your varnish and Penetrol in a small paper bowl covered over with aluminum foil (because some paper plates and bowls are coated with wax which you don't want dissolving into your varnish/Penetrol mixture).

Now, varnishing is a super-slow, deliberate, toilsome job which requires a goodly reserve of patience so as not to get tiny little bubbles all over the coat of finish you're applying. Brush the varnish on with slow, smooth, long strokes (and maybe have a cigarette afterward). Your coats will be thin because you've reduced the varnish down with Penetrol, so you're going to need about nine coats. That means the varnishing part of the job will take at least nine days because each coat needs at least a day to completely dry. Patience! Once a coat is quite dry, sand very lightly with 320-grit paper. Sand just enough to dull the finish. This will provide the necessary tooth for the next layer of varnish to adhere. That's important.

In the back of your mind, be prepared to accept a few little imperfections in the finish. That's no big deal because your wheels will be a few feet down from eye-level and unless some nut gets down on his hands and knees with a magnifying glass, a few little imperfections in your finish will not be noticeable.

Okay, so you've applied the last of the nine or so coats of varnish. Now it's time to peel the green auto-body masking tape off the hub and rim and paint them. But wait. This would be a good time to take a half-round file and go over the inside of the rim to make sure it'll be nice and smooth for the sake of your inner-tube. After you file it smooth, go over it again with a stiff wire brush. You'll remove some primer this way and may even expose some bare metal, but that's no big deal because the gloss black Rustoleum paint you're going to use contains its own primer. When you're finished abrading the inside of the rim, brush off the iron filings and then go over it again with a tack-cloth.

Now, take another one of your trusty foam brushes, dip it in a can of glossy black Rustoleum and apply a nice, smooth coat to your rim and hub—and for Pete's sake, don't get any on your beautifully finished wood. Wait for the paint to dry completely and then lay on another coat. Dang, that wheel looks nice, doesn't it?!

Now, there is some controversy regarding the use of duct-tape on the inside of a rim. That stuff has worked out just fine for me, but if you'd rather use some other kind of computer-age, digitally-inspired, robot-produced material—fine—have at it.

So okay, now the wheel is finally finished and it's time to mount the inner-tube and tire. That process is just about guaranteed to put a few gouges in your beautifully painted, black rim. No biggie. Just finish mounting the tire and then grab that can of black Rustoleum and another disposable foam brush and touch up the blemishes.

Well, that leaves just three more wheels to do.

The above is what I did to get my wheels to look like this:
Attachments
wheel.jpg


D Stroud
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:45 am
First Name: David
Last Name: Stroud
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe
Location: Mound City, MO 64470
Board Member Since: 2011

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by D Stroud » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:55 am

Myself, I like the look of naturel black painted spokes with the grain showing, as they were when new. To me, the "polished steel" look is just not right, I've never understood that thinking. JMHO Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.

User avatar

jagiven
Posts: 115
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:13 am
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Given
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Roadster, 25/26 speeder
Location: St. Paiul

Re: Treating wooden wheels.

Post by jagiven » Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:12 pm

I did mine natural, I used boiled linseed oil and turpentine. I have never tried it over stain, but it should work, just try it on a piece scrap wood.

The two wheels I did 8-10 years a look great, and should never need touching up.

I have used this mix on all kinds of old wood to stabilize it.

I make a 50:50 mix or much stronger on the turpentine. My grandfather made it 1:1:1 boil linseed oil, turpentine, and kerosene.

My new spokes are rock solid, I actually put them on the lathe and took off a little material off the tenon to allow them to be pressed in.
Attachments
20190405_173413.jpg
20190405_173403.jpg

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic