MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:57 pm**

Hello Everyone,
My name is Brian. I am a new member.
I bought a 1915 touring car last year that has an after market aluminum head on it. It has the Ford Script on top as well as the “made in the usa” and also a letter “R” right in front of the coolant outlet. I am trying to figure out which head this is but don’t see it in any of my catalogs.
Does anyone know what head this is? (who makes it? compression ratio? discontinued product? what the “R” means? etc.)

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:03 pm**

can’t figure out how to paste a photo yet in this forum. I’ll keep trying.

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:23 pm**

From your description, a Z head! Welcome to the addiction club!

Hank

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2022 2:36 pm**

Welcome, Brian!

If it is a low head, which would have been correct for 1915, it might be a Reeder head. Reeder heads I have, have "REEDER" on the inside of the water outlet.

I believe the Z head, marked with a "Z" on the top of the water outlet, were only made in high head.

IIRC, they are about 6:1 compression.

It is a desirable addition to any Model T!

Pictures would help to make a positive identification.

: ^ )

Keith

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:20 pm**

If it has a round casting sprew in the center of the head then it is a Reader head.

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:52 pm**

As mentioned, if it is a Reeder head, that brand is cast into the interior of the water out let at the front of the head. If you take off the elbow with the radiator hose, you will be able to feel the cast letters on the underside of the top of the casting. From memory, the Reeder head on the speedster I sold did not have Ford cast into it. I could be wrong.

Allan from down under.

Posted: **Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:46 pm**

Years ago, Ron Brown here in califunny produced high compression aluminum low heads. They also had an “R” at the water neck. His heads were really light, and his earliest production version was even know to leak a touch of water after a bit of use...

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:15 am**

I've never seen a Reeder head with an R on the outlet. Those I've seen had a 4. It sounds as if Kevin Pharis has it nailed.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:25 pm**

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:27 pm**

Yea! I figured out how to upload photo. (There was too many pixels tall and wide from iphone photo and had to be cropped to upload). So now with photo, what do you think?

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:29 pm**

you can see (maybe not in photo) where someone modified tge dashboard to accommodate this high head because the original car had a low head.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:44 pm**

I did not know that Ron made a high compression low head. I thought only Reeder did.
Good to know. Something to look for...

: ^ )

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:12 pm**

Another maker of HC low and FORD scripted head was Parker.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:07 pm**

The head could be from the 70's if it has countersunk steel washers to protect the aluminum. The R was for Rod Genson at the Palmer Foundry in Mass.
They were great heads and long since gone.

Posted: **Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:22 pm**

Each of my Reeder heads also have a 4 cast into the water outlet.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:10 pm**

Keith, your photo confirms my memory of the lack of Ford script on Reeder heads. The casting sprew mentioned earlier is there too.

I could never work out why they were made with the large void between cylinders two and three, when there is no corresponding void in the engine block. I know of three which warped badly. Once that void was welded up, they worked really well.

Allan from down under.

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:54 pm**

Early production Reeder low heads had Ford script. I have 4 of them. Reeder dropped the script after Ford found out and wanted money/royalties

Posted: **Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:35 pm**

Both my Reeder heads have the Ford Script.

Ditto what Jeff said.

Keith

Posted: **Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:06 pm**

My Genson Head has the R cast in it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:46 pm**

Kevin Pharis wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:46 pm
Years ago, Ron Brown here in califunny produced high compression aluminum low heads. They also had an “R” at the water neck. His heads were really light, and his earliest production version was even know to leak a touch of water after a bit of use...

5F7CB56A-6113-4806-928D-FD8209610389.jpeg
21C8ADED-B448-44E5-84DB-D76114246972.jpeg

Kevin, Is the photo of the alloy head in the photo a Brown or Reader head? Is its combustion chamber shape the same as the head with a #2 on the neck in the photo below which appears a recent head offered by an unknown maker? Does anyone have a photo of the combustion chamber of one of these heads?

The reason for asking is I'm looking around for a head with a shallow combustion chamber to modify for use on a sleeved-down 4.437" bore 122 CI flathead racing engine which was either built with Green Engineering pieces or built by Green. I'm aiming to end up with something with a combustion chamber close to that used on a Green racing head 2nd photo below.

If you haven't seen the engine check here @ viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26805

Posted: **Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:36 pm**

Since the Green pistons are flat (or nearly flat), the Green head must have had a heart shaped combustion chamber similar to that of a Model A. The standard T pistons have a 3/8 flat top dome, and so all will have a cavernous hole in the head to clear. I would imagine that an aluminum head would require a couple pounds of filler rod to close up the combustion chambers enough to accomplish the desired compression ratio.

Seems like a new casting might be effort better spent...

Posted: **Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:55 pm**

I'm aiming to end up with something with a combustion chamber close to that used on a Green racing head

David

Here's the adv. page on the Green racing head.

: 206290.jpg (69.13 KiB) Viewed 4180 times

Also, here is info from 1917 on the first write up on that style. Note the article calls it "Hudson" head, but the mfg. is Green Engineering.

: Image 4-17-21 at 2.43 PM.jpeg (18.34 KiB) Viewed 4180 times

: Image 4-17-21 at 2.44 PM.jpeg (49.99 KiB) Viewed 4180 times

And here's a photo of one on a T engine, friend had this car at his shop, but the owner wouldn't part with it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:32 pm**

Kevin, Thanks, I was thinking of a different approach than filling combustion chambers with weld and then machining them afterward.

Some of the low head HC alloy chamber photos I've looked at recently appear to be fairly low over the piston. What I've been thinking of is CNC milling the chambers over the piston until they are smooth. Machine a round squish pad insert to fit it and then cut off to the same width as the Green squish pad on the left hand side of the chamber and weld it to the head after pre-heating both and keeping them hot. If that is a success, then mill off whatever is safe to from the bottom of the head to further raise the compression ratio.

Making a casting is more than I want to get into. I've successfully had a number of new Duesenberg, Simplex and Packard blocks, and trans and diff casings cast. Then machined them in house, and don't want to go down that road again, and don't have the time.

I like to use this engine, and a separate S-R Fronty engine with a DO Fronty crank for prewar vintage racing in an original 1913 T racing car. Also have a BBR Rajo head I'd like to try as well.

Posted: **Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:50 pm**

DanTreace wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:55 pm

I'm aiming to end up with something with a combustion chamber close to that used on a Green racing head
Dan thanks for the info, I found that same basic article, although without the Hudson attribution and posted it yesterday at the end of this thread @ viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26805

Yes, Green passenger car heads are extremely rare, no one ever wants to sell one and after seeing this photo I now know of two. I'm looking for the racing version, but doubt that any of them have survived?

If you have any other Green information I'd love to see it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:04 pm**

bnold5000 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:57 pm
Hello Everyone,
My name is Brian. I am a new member.
I bought a 1915 touring car last year that has an after market aluminum head on it. It has the Ford Script on top as well as the “made in the usa” and also a letter “R” right in front of the coolant outlet. I am trying to figure out which head this is but don’t see it in any of my catalogs.
Does anyone know what head this is? (who makes it? compression ratio? discontinued product? what the “R” means? etc.)

Rod Jensen of Massachusetts made a copy of the Z head with R on neck in the 1970s as stated here

https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5278&p=46221

Posted: **Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:00 am**

If I remember correctly the Jensen head mentioned above was available in the early 70's, which was way before any other of the aftermarket heads were available except possibly the Gemsa or what later became the Sherman heads. When did Ralph Reeder or Ron Brown make their heads. I don't think there were many of the Parker heads made.

Posted: **Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:20 am**

I was told many years ago that Parker had the same problem as others, hand braked on using the Ford logo and not a big demand for low HC heads at the time, so stopped making them, I still have a NOS one sitting on the self.

Posted: **Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:13 am**

I remember at the first Harrah swap meet at Wooster High School,I met Ron Brown and he was working on his low aluminum head and had a lot of problems with it. He later told me that the head turned out good but that someone got the patterns from him and he couldn't get any more heads. A close friend of Rons told me that a guy named Reeder got the patterns to have the heads cast. I can't prove any of this but the timeline sure is right.

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