MTFCA Forum

Many period photos of later year Model T' runabouts and tourings typically have the top up, and often have no top prop arm and saddle, just a plug over the top prop hole. Noticed in a factory photo of the 15,000,000 Ford, at the end of the assembly line there is someone installing the top prop arm, almost as an after thought. I cannot find anything regarding top saddles leaving the factory. The parts are in the parts manual, they must have been provided by Ford, wonder why they were not installed at the factory. Any older threads about this? I cant find them. There is no evidence that there were ever arms and saddles on my 24 runabout, and the rubber plugs are missing too. Anyone have an original rubber plug they can provide a picture of?

My '27 Touring car has them.

Cars may have one or both of them now, but were the rods or saddles supplied as standard equipment when the car was bought new? Or did you have to buy one or both later? Fewer people were putting the top down, so the rods were not installed, and the plug was used to fill the hole.

I can't remember that far back! But I have seen them both ways. I guess if you planned to leave the top up all the time, the plug would help keep water from going in the hole and less likely to rust.
Norm

Google: mtfca top saddle rubber plug for your answer

George House wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:01 pm

Google: mtfca top saddle rubber plug for your answer

Did that. I didnt find any documentation noted, mostly conjecture. I had heard there was a top down delete discount/savings. Again no documentation. My first T is a 1 owner family early 23 touring. It had the plugs, black painted as described. Both hard like Bakelite. they chipped away to remove. I think the rubber hardened as does a tire of that age. No evidence there were top saddle rods ever installed. Similarly, there is an original 25 roadster in the chapter that has been in the same family since 41.
Where is the dealer or factory mention of the saddles being supplied under the seat or not??

Can you put the top down on the 26-27 cars and drive it without using the top saddles?

Many houses these days have a low garage door and the car won't fit with the top up. I am not sure about the houses built those days. Many were built to fit buggies, so might have been taller. I used to have a 31 Model A Phaeton and it would fit in with the top up, but even the 26-27 is a bit taller than a Model A.
Norm

I have a 27 Canadian built Touring that we bought from the original owner 60+ years ago. It had no arms or saddles and had both rubber plugs in place. I installed arms and saddles and lost the rubber plugs at some point.

Where is the dealer or factory mention of the saddles being supplied under the seat or not??
Something I read on a post here a number of years back.

They left off every thing they could so that you could buy one for $250. My 26 just had the rubber plugs. It had no saddles to rest the top bows on and therefore the top stay up all the time, eventually became torn and ratty and the PO took them off and discarded them in his front yard in the deep grass where they laid for over 35 years. I brought the car home in 1958 minus the top, about 1970 I had a thought that the PO may have done this. I made a special trip to recover the top irons and went to the spot where I had determined this activity may have happened. Four people spread out in the area and did a foot search for any bump in the ground, in less than five minutes there was a bump and a kick of the dirt and there were the top irons. I still have them on the car today. They required considerable restoration but they work and look good. Some of the bent wood was still in the curved parts of the irons, there were two pieces of bent wood 1/4" thick. I found that 1/4" material was difficult to bend so I replaced the wood with three thinner pieces.
On the main arm the wood was inserted before the rivet was put in because the rivet went through the wood.

I assume that when the L arms were discontinued, and the top saddle arm holes created in the body, the rubber plugs were introduced at that time, because Ford realized most people didn't put the tops down. The original plugs were two pieces, a hard rubber plug fused to a soft rubber back that had a groove in it to hold it in place. We were able to reproduce that plug, but made the entire plug from soft rubber.

This one's been there for 97 years.

The original plugs were two pieces, a hard rubber plug fused to a soft rubber back that had a groove in it

These plugs are original to my 1925, found as is in a barn in 1977. They were in an old tire patch canister, and they are aged for sure. Did place them sometime ago in the side panels when the arms were out. Used some glue on them to keep from falling out on the road, so that is the brown residue now on them.

The rubber plugs by Ford for the rear panel opening is all rubber according to the print. The only 'hard surface' would be the specified 'Black Enamel', sprayed with one coat, on the outer surface only, to be painted on the rubber plug to match the exterior of the Ford.

Great documentation on the plug! Thanks for posting Dan.

It seems odd to me to build a convertible car and advertise it and sell it as a convertible car and not equip it with all the basic parts it needs to be used as a convertible car.

Don't know that it was ever called a convertible, just touring car. Convertible would be a car with roll up windows.

Agree with you there too. IMO the top prop rods and saddle and straps were just placed in the car, same as the tool kit, perhaps in a box? Anyway, these parts are needed for the top to be folded down. The mention of these in in the Service Bulletin. Aug 1922, with illustration on how to raise and lower the new 'one man' top. Without these the top irons would collapse over the back of the body!


And many photos show the plugs in place on original cars, when the top prop rods aren't in use. If you have ever squeezed yourself into the trailer/garage when the T has the T "up" and those rods are sticking out......well.....I have hit my elbow on 'em a few times, and they can snatch your shirt too!


The plugs were placed prior to shipping, as the top prop rods could cause trouble in shipping a car. Photos seen show the top assembly fully released and hung down and secured with strapping......that way the top assembly took way less room in packing in the car.

Note this Improved runabout in the box car, top is hanging down and certainly not be supported by the prop rod, saddle and its little leather straps for shipping.


Plugs in place.



And a black painted plug on an Improved Car with color finish.

When I was very young, my dad's '25 Touring still had the plugs. When they finally crumbled and fell out, he made the studs and apparently found some original saddles. He stated that the original studs & saddles had been stored under the back seat but had been lost over the years.

So... it looks like they shipped the cars with the saddles inside and the top collapsed... maybe tied down, or up, or with some kind of carboard spacer or whatever. That makes sense. Anyway, I need to get a pair of them and the related straps.