MTFCA Forum

Setting the debate between painted versus natural wood spokes aside for a moment, I am in the process of stripping the paint off of the wheels on my '23T. It's going pretty smoothly and I think the spokes are going to look pretty good once most of the paint is gone.
I would love to hear from others who converted back to natural wood as to what they painted the spokes with (varnish, urethane, linseed oil, etc.) and how they went about painting the hub and outer rim parts. I want the spokes to be natural wood color and all the metal parts to be black.

Thanks in advance for sharing.

Mike

Ford painted them all black. That would be easiest, however if you want clear wheels I would recommend Spar Varnish. It is something they use on natural wood parts of boats. If you can't find the varnish, then clear Poly Urathane would be next best. You will need to carefully mask all the parts you want black when you paint the spokes, then when it is completely dry, mask the spokes and paint the other parts black.
Norm

I sealed spokes for 5 wheels years ago but they were new and had not been painted black. I used spar varnish and hung them on a clothes line to dry. They came out beautiful. It will take a lot of masking with the wheels complete as yours are at the present time but it looks as if you have done most of the hard part already….

I used Epifanes on my wheels when I had them respoked about 10 years ago. I first used Minwax Cherry Wood Gel Stain since I wanted the wood a darker color. Then I applied several coats of Epifanes High Gloss Clear Varnish and then applied a final coat of Epifanes Woodfinish Matte.

The Matte is designed to be applied over the High Gloss Varnish.

I removed the front wheel spokes from the wheel. Didn’t remove the rear spokes from the wheel. Hand scraped all black off, light sand, stain w/golden oak, then coated with West System Marine Epoxy w/ slow activator.To keep the epoxy off the mating surface and the tips of the spokes, put Play Doe on those areas, after everything dries, scrap off the hardened Play Doe.
John, Oscoda Michigan

I have finished a number of wheels and usually finish the spokes “naturally”, not because it is correct but, being a woodworker by trade, I find them appealing. I have access to a bead blast cabinet and have found that to be the best way to strip the old finish. It is aggressive enough to remove paint and rust but, with care, doesn’t erode the hickory spokes needlessly. Sand blasting is pretty hard on the wood from my experience. Once stripped I carefully mask off the wood spokes with tape and paper. To mask around the hub I use an old hub plate as a template and cut the radius in 2” masking tape and then apply front and back. At this point all that is exposed is metal which I prime with epoxy primer and finish sand followed with black automotive base coat. When dry I remove the masking and finish the entire wheel with multiple coats of automotive clear coat. The clear coat is probably not recommended for wood but it is formulated for use on plastic and rubber body parts and will flex as needed. In my opinion the automotive clears are as impervious to uv degradation as anything available. I work on my cars more than I drive them so I can’t report on longevity or hard use but so far so good.

Here are the products I used on my spokes:

I finished my late 24 Coupe wheels in clear varnish. Ford did make available natural colored 21” wood wheels in 1925 according to the encyclopedia. https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/U-Z.htm#wheels

It’s sort of like “all Model T’s were black”. But we know that’s not necessarily so.

You don't need to go back! Ford never offered natural wheels until 1925, and then ONLY on the 21" wheels. Paint them. Do it right.

I used several coats of Minwax Wood Hardener. Its a penetrating resin that gets into the wood fibers. I sanded between coats until the wood wouldn't take any more. The product is very runny in order to soak into the wood, so be prepared. Also applied to the ends of the spokes in the felloe. Also you can paint over it if you or someone else wants to paint them.

Proper striping, preparation, masking etc.. is ton of work so make sure the clear polyurethane product used is recommend for outdoor use offering ultra violet protection. "UV" exposure is the enemy of all poly products unless a protectant is added. It would be my recommendation to use marine grade polyurethane which may not be available from your local hardware store. These are available in high gloss, satin or flat.

I have just had new spokes put into the wheels of my rusty old T. Naturally they stick out like a sore thumb. I have found that watering them every couple of days causes them to Grey and look much more like the rest of the car. Think about the fence around your yard. Where the sprinklers hit the wood that wood has turned grey.

The level of gloss brings a question. What gloss is usually applied to wheels? High, semi, flat or otherwise.

Art Mirtes

Wood finishes by their nature are all high gloss. Paint manufacturers add a “flatting agent” to the finish when it is made to refract light and dull the sheen. If you apply high gloss and wait until it hardens you can achieve the same effect by polishing with very fine steel wool and brown wax (common for wood floors). The elbow grease and abrasiveness of the steel wool will affect the sheen. Back in the day the go to products for this process were pumice or rottenstone mixed with an oil.

Isn't "setting aside the debate" kinda like saying, I know it's wrong to rob a
bank, but would it be better if I used a pistol or a shotgun ?

Some days this forum reminds me of a holiness church I attended for many years. You were ok as long as your righteousness was the same as theirs plus or minus two percent. Anything over you were a fanatic and anything under you were a heathen. The church has since closed and the building is for sale. Word to the wise. I tried not to post but I couldn’t help myself - forgive me.

As you are not going to disassemble the wheels the easiest way to refinish the wheels would be by brush.
All the areas are small so a brush is ideal, spraying can be difficult to get all the areas inside and out shiny without overspray on adjacent spokes or areas.
As you are brushing either the clear or black parts little or minimum masking ( or even no masking if you are careful ) would be a lot faster and if you use slow drying paints easy to get top results. Do a bit of practice before attacking the wheels. You will use far less paint as well. As other have advised good quality paints for outside use are worth the trouble and cost as you will get far longer service after all you prep work.

When I got my first T back 40 some years ago, the spokes were safety yellow...a very,very, thick coat...and peeling away. So I did the scrape with a broken chunk of glass as everyone said...took forever, but do-able, for a while, got old after the first wheel! I then had them dipped AND neutralized and they came home needing very minor 200 grit sanding with the metal fellow now bare and ready for prime.

Yes, tedious tape off with little pieces overlapping but that done, fellow and hubs primed with no bleed through on spokes. Let that primer dry for a week or so.

Tedious tape in the opposite direction. Left the spoke on while applying fellow mask, then took spoke part off, wanted a perfect butt of the tape and got it.

The spokes were done in a WATER-LOX exterior coating. Guys on here don't use the stuff. The wife had recommended it as she had lots of experience with it restoring old furniture and sealing things for exterior use. Brush on with just about any brush and it will flow on its own to be glass smooth was the claim. Yup...the claim was true. Patience is a virtue as this stuff is linseed oil based. Let it dry for a month!

Back to the butted masking tape exchange, again, then did all the metal with something maybe hard to get today. A mixture of Rustoleum gloss black, and Rustoleum clear at 50/50. At the time in the mid-70's before all this fancy coating stuff, this is what guys in the local club had been mixing for years for running gear work. (I'm not sure Clear is available today in the low VOC stuff).

The magic part? I've never sold any T I have ever bought. 40+ years...NO peel, NO bubbles, NO checks...all it takes is a wipe down with a wet cloth and good to go...no worries either when washing the car...and it looks like refinished yesterday.

That said, there is a part 2...

My cars after that came black wheels in decent shape, until a 2010 'buy'...it came with some sloppy varnish job that was like peeling Saran Wrap on red metal fellows and hub. Thought long and hard about doing it like the original '25. Then just decided too much work, too long a time frame, and now in my 70's a month is a long time (that does go by in 2 seconds). I sanded them down to get through the failed varnish, they were demountable so finished it all with rattle can black. Good enough for now!

Stuff to think about. Good luck.

As to coating with “epoxy” as a clear finish, the vast majority of epoxies have no UV blocking additives, so it will degrade (turn yellow and beak down) in sunlight fairly quickly.
Epoxy finishes require normal varnishing with an exterior varnish to provide the UV protection.

Now I’m not suggesting epoxy, in fact I have never used it as a “clear finish” for the brightwork on my boats (just traditional varnish).


For bright finished spokes I would go with just a traditional varnish. Personally I would prep the whole wheel (wood and metal), then do my varnish work with no masking.
Then mask the spokes and paint the black. This will tend to more reliably seal the edges of the wood to the metal and may reduce discoloration and water staining at the ends of the spokes over time.

No need to spray, brushing can be just fine.

I prefer the natural look and just finished this wheel today. The picture is a before and after of the rear wheels from a 26 chassis that was turned into a farm wagon. We rescued the chassis from a barn and it was sunk in the mud for decades I’m guessing. The spokes were surprisingly sound but very dry. I took the wheel apart and sanded them to get down to the “fresh” wood and applied two coats of thinned Spar Urethane (to allow it to soak in) proceeded with about 8 coats full strength. Metal was painted with gloss Rustoleum (rattle can variety).

I was kinda thinking that "Setting the debate between painted versus natural wood spokes aside for a moment", actually meant I don't care what you purists think. It's my car and I want natural spokes.

Now, how as a community do we help him get to where he wants to be?

i think the paint is whats holding mine together. philip

. 903-824-1949