MTFCA Forum

The 5 racer has arrived and I have mild issue:
This engine has a Model “A” crank installed along with a deeper oil pan. The upper petcock was removed and a plug installed. The question is, normally you would fill tell the oil ran out of the top petcock. So is the procedure changed to fill only to the bottom petcock? I’m assuming that this may be the case due to the additional oil in the deeper pan? Or do I need to replace the plug with another petcock?

Loftbed wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:41 pm

The 5 racer has arrived and I have mild issue:
This engine has a Model “A” crank installed along with a deeper oil pan. The upper petcock was removed and a plug installed. The question is, normally you would fill tell the oil ran out of the top petcock. So is the procedure changed to fill only to the bottom petcock? I’m assuming that this may be the case due to the additional oil in the deeper pan? Or do I need to replace the plug with another petcock? petcock.png

The oil level is supposed to be BETWEEN the 2 petcocks. Filling to the top petcock is too much. The tricky thing about checking the oil, is to have a feel for how much oil is flowing out the bottom valve without a sight gauge to determine the oil level..

Perhaps drain it and then see how much oil it takes to get to the lower petcock. I suspect it will take several GALLONS!

Does it have a pressure oil system?

Les Schubert wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:00 pm

Does it have a pressure oil system?

With that flow thru connection, I would think not.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:47 pm

Loftbed wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:41 pm

The 5 racer has arrived and I have mild issue:
This engine has a Model “A” crank installed along with a deeper oil pan. The upper petcock was removed and a plug installed. The question is, normally you would fill tell the oil ran out of the top petcock. So is the procedure changed to fill only to the bottom petcock? I’m assuming that this may be the case due to the additional oil in the deeper pan? Or do I need to replace the plug with another petcock? petcock.png

The oil level is supposed to be BETWEEN the 2 petcocks. Filling to the top petcock is too much. The tricky thing about checking the oil, is to have a feel for how much oil is flowing out the bottom valve without a sight gauge to determine the oil level..

When you change oil in your modern car, do you fill to the top of the "safe" zone, or just fill to midway?

Les Schubert wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:59 pm

Perhaps drain it and then see how much oil it takes to get to the lower petcock. I suspect it will take several GALLONS!

My fully sumped pan is comfortably above the bottom petcock at 10 quarts... my guess is the aluminum sump adds 3 quarts...
You don’t need much oil on the flywheel for a splash engine to operate properly. Seems to me the M500 boys run like 1.5 quarts. I fill mine to normal level as I have to cover the oil pickup tube, and am concerned about the transmission going dry

You can always drill a hole where you like at the desired level to be at the next oil change on the accessory deep sump and install a petcock. I prefer a high level breather on a deep sump to relief heat. A lot on hot air stays in there if you do not. Just Sayin'

Hank

One thing you need to know is what kind of oiling system you have. Model A had a splash system similar to a T however,it used an oil pump to lift the oil into the valve chamber from where it ran into the dips in the crankcase. Or you could have a pressurized crankshaft similar to a modern car. So you really need to find from someone who is familiar with this engine to be sure how much oil it needs. Then you can devise a system to check the oil. Also do you have the original transmission or has it been fitted with something else? All these things need to be known in order to answer this question.
Norm

The deep sump typlcaly holds 4 qts and the T sump up to the upper spickiot holds 4 qts, for a total of 8 quarts of oil, a oil filter system would hold more oil. The hose between the deep sump and the T sump is needed to equalize the oil level even with a splash oiled system. Make sure there is always oil over the oil pickup in a pressure system, sucking air is bad news.

I would remove the top plug, put a petcock in the hole, and keep the oil level between the two. Just because it has a sump, the oil level should be no different than a regular engine- Not sure even with an oil pump, that you would do anything different. Having an A crank changes nothing regarding lubrication for the bearings and transmission. If it had an oil pump, there would most likely be some evidence of additional external oil lines, a filter etc. , but you have made no mention of these details.

I'm going to install a "sight gauge" in the bottom petcock location. that should enable me to maintain the original oil level.
BTW, this speedster was originally built by Pete Eastwood and subsequently bought and rebuilt by Don Small who had "loco Larry" build this engine.
I am in the process of replacing all the fluids prior to firing her up after an extended time that she has been idle. I am also creating a time-line history of the car, so if anyone has any info, let me know. I hear that it was on numerous hill climb events while under Don Smalls ownership?

Rod

Here,s a couple of photos:

Rod, I would do as Dan recommends and install the stock upper spickot. I had a deep sump A crank speedster, it was full pressure, and I never had problems checking the oil with the stock T system. You could try to find a unused repo Rajo oil gauge that were being sold. The problem with some sight gauges is that they can get air locked. The oil level looks low but isn’t, you add oil, now the oil is to high. I guess that would be better than the inverse case. Check out prior T forum’s posted on oil sight gauges.

What an awesome Speedster/Racer! Very cool!

BTW, I have no idea who "Loco Larry" is, but if I were having an engine rebuilt, I would choose "Loco Larry", based solely on the name alone!

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:12 am

What an awesome Speedster/Racer! Very cool!

BTW, I have no idea who "Loco Larry" is, but if I were having an engine rebuilt, I would choose "Loco Larry", based solely on the name alone!

This Larry's Engine Rebuilding & Machine Shop at 4860 SE 82ND Ave Portland, OR?

Thought I had seen the car before, is the sheet metal around firewall dark grey or black?

Loco Larry's shop was in Whittier, Ca